Zwartable rams

[Green farmer]

So, abit light in ram cover. Could do with throwing an extra ram or two in with them. Thinking of sourcing something cheap and local just as extra cover. Spotted some zwartable rams for sale, would they be suitable for outdoor lambing on smallish lleyn x ewes ? Wont be keeping offspring, just something easy lambing that will end up in factory. Or would I be better off keep looking elsewhere ?

 

[M-J-G]

We have some Zwartbles ewes and they are big plain sheep, I certainly wouldn't say that they'd cross well with a Lleyn for a prime lamb.

 

[Green farmer]

We have some Zwartbles ewes and they are big plain sheep, I certainly wouldn't say that they'd cross well with a Lleyn for a prime lamb.

Fair enough. its only my b flock. Just want something easy lambed to give me a 18-20kg R grade finished product. Might keep looking to see what else pops up.

 

[M-J-G]

Fair enough. its only my b flock. Just want something easy lambed to give me a 18-20kg R grade finished product. Might keep looking to see what else pops up.

They are a breed that needs crossed with a pretty easily finished terminal IMO.
We use a Hampshire on them.

We've had pure Zwartbles lambs finish off their mothers, but the ones that don't can be around for a while before they fatten.

The breed is pretty much all maternal, and a bit of a Holstein really.

 

[andybk]

They are a breed that needs crossed with a pretty easily finished terminal IMO.
We use a Hampshire on them.

We've had pure Zwartbles lambs finish off their mothers, but the ones that don't can be around for a while before they fatten.

The breed is pretty much all maternal, and a bit of a Holstein really.

great milky easy lambed females that are very good mothers crossed with small blocky char or tex / belt , wouldnt use one for terminal , unless you want growth .

 

[Devil's advocate]

great milky easy lambed females that are very good mothers crossed with small blocky char or tex / belt , wouldnt use one for terminal , unless you want growth .

So what is the biggest downside of a zwarble ewe?

 

[M-J-G]

great milky easy lambed females that are very good mothers crossed with small blocky char or tex / belt , wouldnt use one for terminal , unless you want growth .

And growth is the only terminal trait you get, but at the expense of fleshing.

I cannot dispute the milking ability and their capability to lamb monster lambs (sometimes done on their feet), but they have a tendency to produce those monster lambs which can pull the ewes down and require a lot of milk from day 1.

As ewes go they are a hungry big bugger, and I question their efficiency even though you'll rarely have lambs left to sell after 5 months old, they still need fed for 12 months.

But the OP is requiring a terminal, so most of these points aren't really applicable.

 

[M-J-G]

So what is the biggest downside of a zwarble ewe?

See above

 

[andybk]

And growth is the only terminal trait you get, but at the expense of fleshing.

I cannot dispute the milking ability and their capability to lamb monster lambs (sometimes done on their feet), but they have a tendency to produce those monster lambs which can pull the ewes down and require a lot of milk from day 1.

As ewes go they are a hungry big bugger, and I question their efficiency even though you'll rarely have lambs left to sell after 5 months old, they still need fed for 12 months.

But the OP is requiring a terminal, so most of these points aren't really applicable.

wouldn't disagree , though with all breeds , the "show end" tends to be the holstein there are friesian types that have better fleshing but arnt so big .
The original idea was to bring them in to do a similar job to the BFL but more hardy and prolific on hill type ewes , the issue was hobby breeders and showmen with different ideas

 

[z.man]

wouldn't disagree , though with all breeds , the "show end" tends to be the holstein there are friesian types that have better fleshing but arnt so big .
The original idea was to bring them in to do a similar job to the BFL but more hardy and prolific on hill type ewes , the issue was hobby breeders and showmen with different ideas

A breed that is slowly getting destroyed by the need to be the tallest . Have used Z’d rams to chase as sweepers before and they do a great job of getting some extra lambs won’t be market toppers but if bred from a terminal x ewe would be very decent killing lambs

 

[z.man]

This one would do a job on cross ewes

 

[neilo]

A breed that is slowly getting destroyed by the need to be the tallest . Have used Z’d rams to chase as sweepers before and they do a great job of getting some extra lambs won’t be market toppers but if bred from a terminal x ewe would be very decent killing lambs

The OP has Lleyn cross ewes, not terminal cross. I struggle to get my head round the concept of keeping terminal X ewes these days, let alone to then put a Holstein on them.

 

[z.man]

The OP will not be using a Z ram(I hope) but the right one would be no worse than any other maternal breed, and to be fair I wouldn’t thank you for
anymore than a first x texel ewe but then I know your opinion on Mule ewes too
It looks as if my Lleyn ram is wasting his time with the texel x mule/lleyn glimmers then..... I had to start breeding some more of my own replacements most of the Lleyn ones I bought didn’t fit my farm/system

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

A breed that is slowly getting destroyed by the need to be the tallest . Have used Z’d rams to chase as sweepers before and they do a great job of getting some extra lambs won’t be market toppers but if bred from a terminal x ewe would be very decent killing lambs

I'd disagree there, daughter has the tallest ewes of any breed of sheep that I've ever seen, due to my tup buying when she was too young and inexperienced to pick/buy her own, she's 15 now and does all her own buying and selling, she's ewes you could put a saddle on their that tall, but nothing wrong with their fleshing ability, always bought the biggest and best fleshed tup I could find in the worcester sale, always coming off a lady off Anglesey, those tups have left their mark on the flock, we've had lambs here out of just about every breed of ewe including Lleyns by the Zwarb tup and I've never seen a bad one, the best would have been out of Beulah's and Kerry's (they do get fat) I did get sucked in and bought a fancy thing one year (privately) but he wasn't overly tall, but neither he nor his lambs would flesh and him and all his progeny went, its like all breeds there's good and bad in them all, she sold all her hogs lambs a month ago, May born all twins £96 apiece, July born £75 apiece, they do produce the goods BUT, they do eat.

 

[z.man]

I'd disagree there, daughter has the tallest ewes of any breed of sheep that I've ever seen, due to my tup buying when she was too young and inexperienced to pick/buy her own, she's 15 now and does all her own buying and selling, she's ewes you could put a saddle on their that tall, but nothing wrong with their fleshing ability, always bought the biggest and best fleshed tup I could find in the worcester sale, always coming off a lady off Anglesey, those tups have left their mark on the flock, we've had lambs here out of just about every breed of ewe including Lleyns by the Zwarb tup and I've never seen a bad one, the best would have been out of Beulah's and Kerry's (they do get fat) I did get sucked in and bought a fancy thing one year (privately) but he wasn't overly tall, but neither he nor his lambs would flesh and him and all his progeny went, its like all breeds there's good and bad in them all, she sold all her hogs lambs a month ago, May born all twins £96 apiece, July born £75 apiece, they do produce the goods BUT, they do eat.

If your buying off the same lady at Anglesey I’m thinking off you will be doing grand, her sheep always seem to do well ps I don’t think in general the Welsh sheep are nearly as tall/narrow as some

 

[irish dom]

Don't do it. Any i have handled have been awful. Big harsh bare things. They were fierce popular round here with show people but you couldn't flesh the lambs or give them away in a mart.

 

[Green farmer]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Sounds like the zwartable wouldnt really add much to my ewes, so pulled out a one or two charolais x ram lambs I was fattening for the factory. Going to use them instead.