michael N123
Member
If youve got half a brain cell and got pulled over with the digger you would say your going to do some draining on your farm
what are rules using red diesel in tractor when it should be white?
- Thread starter startinghandle
- Start date
Red or white.....
Wouldn't get away with this on the A40....
Wouldn't get away with this on the A40....
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Funnily enough a farmer and contractor has just this last week harvested maize on a field next door to here, it's a field that is almost entirely surrounded by road so opening out the trailers have stayed on the road first time round.Red or white.....
Wouldn't get away with this on the A40....
How do I know this? Well local talk is about how much maize did they actually get in the trailers.
Edit
I'm only guessing that's how they opened out, I don't have any other explanation for the amount of maize on the road.
Tha Ulsterscot
Member
- Location
- Greyabbey Co. Down.
With bigger and bigger units becoming the norm, necessitating further to haul both Silage and Slurry, never to mention feeding Digesters etc. it is possible that all road haulage, except very local, will have to be done by lorries, with trailers only in the fields and transferring loads at road side.
Grassman
Member
- Location
- Derbyshire
In the first instance you don't have to do anything. He has to make a case to the cps and they decide if it's in the public interest to proceed as far as I'm aware.
So at that point if he isn't doing things by the book it will go no further.
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
Exactly, he can only issue a fine and points if you admit you’re guilty. Otherwise it’s a shed load of paperwork on his behalf that may or may not be taken further. By taking it on the chin not only are you making his life easier but he’s probably collecting brownie points to boot.
Tubbylew
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/features/farming/9288037.Landmark_court_win_for_Mike_Bradbury/
More info, although no mention of the colour of fuel.
Philip Watkins
Member
- Location
- Back in Shropshire
I would guess he was using red but as you say no mention of that as part of the charges.
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Fuel colour wasn’t being directly argued, if it was it then HMRC would be taking him to court rather than VOSA. They were trying to prosecute him for not having an o-license / incorrectly licenced.
But interestingly did confirm that had the farmer bought fence-posts from the fencing contractor, and the contractor was delivering them but not erecting the fence, then it would have been haulage and therefore illegal.
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Yes indeed. A fine but very important point to distinguish. Appears VOSA's case against him hinged on that alone!
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
Exactly, here are the rules. Don’t forget that the rules for red diesel, etc were all bought into line when the MOA was written.
Agriculture - what if it is not my farm?
If you have been contracted to carry out agricultural work at a farm, and use red diesel in your tractor to travel to and from the farm, that is permitted so long as you are going to use your tractor for that work or are using it to carry the materials or equipment that you will need there or to remove any produce or waste resulting from your work. You can also use red diesel when you go home or return to your premises at the end of your day’s work. If you do not work on the farm, and you are not going there to carry out agricultural work, you cannot use red diesel.
So, for example, you cannot use red diesel:
if you are a dealer in farming equipment or materials and deliver goods to a farmer that the farmer has leased or purchased from you. The same applies if you lend equipment to a farmer (even if you are a farmer yourself)
if you are a haulier, to transport something to or from a farm
michael N123
Member
So tractor dealers dropping off equipment with whatever tractors in there yard are braking the law? What about traveling to the dealers in my own tractor to pick up a machine
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
Yes to the first bit. Quite a few dealers use a low loader to deliver machines also, it’s clearly haulage. Most new tractors and combines actually have white in the tank from the factory, my new combine ( 5 years ago ) did.
Going to the dealers with your tractor to collect a machine for use on your farm is ok on red as is taking your tractor to the dealer to be repaired or serviced.
FonterraFarmer
Member
- Location
- Waikato, New Zealand
My previous job was just off the A40 but at the other end, just past Hanger Lane.Red or white.....
Wouldn't get away with this on the A40....
ollie989898
Member
So ponder me this then folks.
Mill and mix lorries. Run on red?
Mobile crane. Run on red?
JCB 4CX belonging to local builder, moves from site to site, run on red?
Dealer low loader delivering a tractor is clearly straight forward haulage. Same as hauling straw with an artic, the fact is might go onto farms is immaterial, same as corn lorries.
But the first three scenarios -all of the above merely move from site to site, they do not haul materials or goods on the road for reward, which is surely the definition of a haulier and would require the use of white diesel?
Mill and mix lorries. Run on red?
Mobile crane. Run on red?
JCB 4CX belonging to local builder, moves from site to site, run on red?
Dealer low loader delivering a tractor is clearly straight forward haulage. Same as hauling straw with an artic, the fact is might go onto farms is immaterial, same as corn lorries.
But the first three scenarios -all of the above merely move from site to site, they do not haul materials or goods on the road for reward, which is surely the definition of a haulier and would require the use of white diesel?
ollie989898
Member
Also, be aware that in the past I have seen webpages from what are basically police forums and there were numerous individuals on them who stated they were deliberately out the looking for agricultural machines as they considered them an easy collar. Whether that is accurate or truth I do not know but I do know that there are a number of people in probably any community who seem to have a vast capacity for vindictiveness.
- Location
- Welshpool Powys
Mill & mix lorries are Agricultural and they cannot haul goods due to their design of body and cannot serve no other purpose.
Gritters and snowploughs can also run on red I believe?
Gritters and snowploughs can also run on red I believe?
Tomtrac
Member
- Location
- Penrith cumbria
White diesal is for roads and red for off roads
Dont know where you lot are getting this that red is just for farms
As prev post
If a mill mix vehicle or seed dressing truck is taxed as plant its ok no mot and red
Same as cranes,if they operate off the road they are ok to drive to and from site on the same red fuel tank only carrying for there off road work
gritter lorries are taxed as gritters NO mot and red
There is a special vehicle tax bracket also for red use
If you fill up red at a garage as most HGV fuel stations have a red pump you have to fill a form in reg no.use etc if filling over a certain amount off lt
In one quarry i worked at they where using one -two artic loads of red a week all plant is red as they dont go on roads
Now the difference is you CANNOT use RED for PLEASURE as not in boats etc horse paddock topping,hedge cutting houses etc
if a riding school is part of a farm on the same VAT number etc its ok but if if not and for pleasure its white
The grey area is if its a buisiness and not part of a farm is it classed as pleasure i have argued with plod its ok tractor and topper etc working in a horse field as plant etc working off road but cutting hedge on a road isn't aaahhhh every person has a different idea bang head there are so many different cases its is very hard to get it right just turn off the flashing lights and drive round covered in cow sh!t under the plods/vosas noses
Dont use a big shiny tractor with flashing lights saying hey look here i go past again