Brexit...there are far worse possibilities

Woolless · Dec 5, 2018

bobk said:
Worrying isn't it , lose , lose ,lose . so do we go for it and jump . ?

It certainly is. On the plus side, it makes news bulletins and papers interesting!

Re. jump?, I really don't know any more. I have some sympathy for the views expressed by @ollie989898 about the EU's future and tightening up our immigration policy would be a plus. But I voted remain as I wanted stability to establish a farming business and provide for three young kids.

le bon paysan · Dec 5, 2018

bobk said:
Worrying isn't it , lose , lose ,lose . so do we go for it and jump . ?

Leaving is a mistake.
It's not a mistake until it can't be undone.
Withdraw Article 50.

Or carry on and let pride come before the fall........

Tin Hat on !

bobk · Dec 5, 2018

Woolless said:
It certainly is. On the plus side, it makes news bulletins and papers interesting!

Re. jump?, I really don't know any more. I have some sympathy for the views expressed by @ollie989898 about the EU's future and tightening up our immigration policy would be a plus. But I voted remain as I wanted stability to establish a farming business and provide for three young kids.

It's a bit like the Greek bailout when one inhabitant said..... die or be killed . metaphorically speaking .

bobk · Dec 5, 2018

le bon paysan said:
Leaving is a mistake.
It's not a mistake until it can't be undone.
Withdraw Article 50.

Or carry on and let pride come before the fall........

Tin Hat on !

I don't know , we're not like Europeans sadly , different aims and aspirations , a revokation of Article 50 is probably the last resort and the end of the govt .

turbo · Dec 5, 2018

bobk said:
I don't know , we're not like Europeans sadly , different aims and aspirations , a revokation of Article 50 is probably the last resort and the end of the govt .

And democracy

Woolless · Dec 5, 2018

turbo said:
And democracy

Not if you have another referendum. The Times reports the latest YouGov poll gives 49% against Brexit now, with 38% still in favour. 11% of Leave voters have changed their mind (IIRC).

wanton dwarf · Dec 5, 2018

Woolless said:
Not if you have another referendum. The Times reports the latest YouGov poll gives 49% against Brexit now, with 38% still in favour. 11% of Leave voters have changed their mind (IIRC).

Yeah right.

How many people do you know who use YouGov ?

I don't know any .. those that are likely to do so are in Momentum.

Woolless · Dec 5, 2018

wanton dwarf said:
Yeah right.

How many people do you know who use YouGov ?

I don't know any .. those that are likely to do so are in Momentum.

Yes, you're right. Probably didn't bother asking anyone and just sat in the YouGov office drinking tea...

Would it really be such a surprise that the referendum result would be comprehensively reversed now, given the complete balls that's been made of the whole thing?

Skimmer · Dec 5, 2018

Woolless said:
Not if you have another referendum. The Times reports the latest YouGov poll gives 49% against Brexit now, with 38% still in favour. 11% of Leave voters have changed their mind (IIRC).

Being asked and turning up to vote are two completely different situations opinion polls haven't cottoned on to that yet.

bobk · Dec 5, 2018

Skimmer said:
Being asked and turning up to vote are two completely different situations opinion polls haven't cottoned on to that yet.

A second vote would be a total affront to the population .

wanton dwarf · Dec 5, 2018

Woolless said:
Yes, you're right. Probably didn't bother asking anyone and just sat in the YouGov office drinking tea...

Would it really be such a surprise that the referendum result would be comprehensively reversed now, given the complete balls that's been made of the whole thing?

I don't talk to the world but every Brexiteer I have spoken to is literally steel.

We've been proved correct at every turn.

I cannot think of a civil word to say about Remainer politicians .. do you seriously think anyone that voted Brexit thinks it was a "Mistake". Most people I know want revenge.

bobk · Dec 5, 2018

wanton dwarf said:
I don't talk to the world but every Brexiteer I have spoken to is literally steel.

We've been proved correct at every turn.

I cannot think of a civil word to say about Remainer politicians .. do you seriously think anyone that voted Brexit thinks it was a "Mistake". Most people I know want revenge.

Oh ffs grow up , it's business ... if you take it personally you're in the wrong game , this will go until March .... wait until you see the whites of their eyes .

Woolless · Dec 5, 2018

Skimmer said:
Being asked and turning up to vote are two completely different situations opinion polls haven't cottoned on to that yet.

That's true.

Woolless · Dec 5, 2018

bobk said:
A second vote would be a total affront to the population .

Why do you think that? Being asked their opinion again when we are much better informed as to what is involved and sentiment appears to be moving away from the original result.

Woolless · Dec 5, 2018

wanton dwarf said:
I don't talk to the world but every Brexiteer I have spoken to is literally steel.

We've been proved correct at every turn.

I cannot think of a civil word to say about Remainer politicians .. do you seriously think anyone that voted Brexit thinks it was a "Mistake". Most people I know want revenge.

Literally steel? That must be inconvenient.

I seriously think that very few who voted Leave, other than the real headbangers, will have had at the least doubt placed in their mind by the way things have gone and I would think an 11% swing to Remain is more than likely. If most people you know want revenge, then you move in very different circles to me (and no, I live far from Islington thankfully).

Do you think Liam Fox was proved correct when he stated that it would be the easiest negotiation in history?

Jackov Altraids · Dec 5, 2018

Muck Spreader said:
Remain means just that, no changes business as usual. I've not herd of anyone asking for a different sort of remain. Is there such a thing.

Ashtree said:
Crikey ..... @wanton dwarf has started passing the mushrooms around.

Remain is what existes today! Full on member of EU, SM, CU, ECJ, four freedoms ..
Nobody but mushroom munchers are unclear on that.

No mushroom munching, you mis-read my post

"If we were out and negotiating in, the situation would be the same."

If we were negotiating joining the EU , the Europhiles would be just as split as what the arrangements should be. The truth is that if we were not already a member, you would not get a majority to vote to join.
It is quite incredible that the main criticism of the current deal is that the UK has no way of unilaterally leaving the backstop agreement.
With the recent rule changes, no country has the unilateral right to leave the EU.

If we can revoke article 5?, and simply carry on as nothing had happened that would make our options clearer although this itself isn't certain.

turbo · Dec 5, 2018

Woolless said:
Not if you have another referendum. The Times reports the latest YouGov poll gives 49% against Brexit now, with 38% still in favour. 11% of Leave voters have changed their mind (IIRC).

You can have your second vote but remain should not be on it.it was on the last one and lost and due to the powers that be we still havn't left.If we leave properly in march then you can have your vote in 3 or 4 years time when project fear has been proven wrong yet again.

Skimmer · Dec 5, 2018

Woolless said:
Literally steel? That must be inconvenient.

I seriously think that very few who voted Leave, other than the real headbangers, will have had at the least doubt placed in their mind by the way things have gone and I would think an 11% swing to Remain is more than likely. If most people you know want revenge, then you move in very different circles to me (and no, I live far from Islington thankfully).

Do you think Liam Fox was proved correct when he stated that it would be the easiest negotiation in history?

The way Europe has treated brexit has just reinforced the need to be out.

Woolless · Dec 5, 2018

turbo said:
You can have your second vote but remain should not be on it.it was on the last one and lost and due to the powers that be we still havn't left.If we leave properly in march then you can have your vote in 3 or 4 years time when project fear has been proven wrong yet again.

If we did have to vote in 4 years time, then we'd be in much worse shape than now, see posts above. No point having a vote unless the status quo is on it and we can (just about) pick up where we left off IMO.

Woolless · Dec 5, 2018

Skimmer said:
The why Europe has treated brexit has just reinforced the need to be out.

They have just been protecting their interests and not letting our negotiators have their cake and eat it.

Brexit...there are far worse possibilities

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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