Carb-free/Atkins/Keto diets - any advice

Lowland1 said:

Same with meat isn’t it. Compare steak with what’s in a bought pie or burger. I just get a bit annoyed with the whole stereotypical weedy vegans/vegetarians v obese meat eater stuff. It’s all quite simple don’t eat more than you need and as stated avoid the processed stuff meat or non meat.

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I suppose with a pie its the crust or the burger its the bread and the ketchup etc. and the sugar/ salt/ flour all around it which when eaten in combination with meat all needs digesting at the same time

You can have too much meat I'm sure, definitely you can have too much milk. The idea of vegetarianism/ plant based being a bit more "pure" mostly comes from Hinduism and all those anthroposophists where food is quite ritualistic imv.

SilliamWhale said:

I suppose with a pie its the crust or the burger its the bread and the ketchup etc. and the sugar/ salt/ flour all around it which when eaten in combination with meat all needs digesting at the same time

You can have too much meat I'm sure, definitely you can have too much milk. The idea of vegetarianism/ plant based being a bit more "pure" mostly comes from Hinduism and all those anthroposophists where food is quite ritualistic imv.

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I went to Belgium last month with two Hindus. Both relatively young men neither eats meat at home but when away from home no steak is safe. The interesting thing is whilst living in vegetarian households both are overweight it isn’t the meat when out or the vegetables at home it’s what it’s cooked in. Deep fried vegetables are pretty dangerous.

After having a think I jumped on the scales tonight, and it’s bad!
Over Xmas period I had 8 consecutive days of been out with family/socially every night and some midday meals out (2x Xmas dinners within 5 hours) and over that period I had at least 2x beers a day, and because I was been fed it was nothing like my usual diet, so lots of bread, pastry, all the usual stuff. I have put on 3.9kg in 8 days and gone up 2% bodyfat!
by New Year’s Day I was ill will it, I was fat, bloated, got acid reflux and was very down and tired. I’m so relieved to be back to my usual!
I’ve been moaning about it and my wife says I shouldn’t of eaten as much etc and it’s my own fault, I reiterated that I would feel rude just eating just the meat from the buffet and my family would most likely be disappointed, you can’t just eat the good expensive stuff you have to bulk it out with other crap!
im not a big drinker but had a few beers, again I was offered and felt like I had to join in, I regret it all now, next year I’m going to be selfish, they can feck off I’m not making myself I’ll again just to conform with “normal”
The only liquid for me now is water and a cup of tea, protein based food, eggs, meat, beans. Fruit for a treat, a normalish tea with some carbs depending on how much exercise I’m doing.

Been the same weight 11 and a half stone or therabouts (at 6ft) since early 20's not sure why really because, i eat any old shite but not much of anything some days i 'forget' to eat through the day, or just have a bowl of soup and bread roll(white)
i do drink a lot of tea though and always milk in it.

some people seem to make a big thing of meals /eating i just eat enough and that's it. never been fat in my life, lucky really i guess.
Plenty of Nervous energy and not really ever laid back that might burn a few calories possibly.
don't see it changing whilst im working and might help the right way as ive stopped beer now as thats nothing nutritionally is it, and its bitter and not that nice i think after recent bout of flu so wont bother with any more.simple.
just dont eat so much and drink lots of tea would be my rec, to try for awhile . at least

Bury the Trash said:

Been the same weight 11 and a half stone or therabouts (at 6ft) since early 20's not sure why really because, i eat any old shite but not much of anything some days i 'forget' to eat through the day, or just have a bowl of soup and bread roll(white)
i do drink a lot of tea though and always milk in it.

some people seem to make a big thing of meals /eating i just eat enough and that's it. never been fat in my life, lucky really i guess.
Plenty of Nervous energy and not really ever laid back that might burn a few calories possibly.
don't see it changing whilst im working and might help the right way as ive stopped beer now as thats nothing nutritionally is it, and its bitter and not that nice i think after recent bout of flu so wont bother with any more.simple.
just dont eat so much and drink lots of tea would be my rec, to try for awhile . at least

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You need ivomec

Bury the Trash said:

Been the same weight 11 and a half stone or therabouts (at 6ft) since early 20's not sure why really because, i eat any old shite but not much of anything some days i 'forget' to eat through the day, or just have a bowl of soup and bread roll(white)
i do drink a lot of tea though and always milk in it.

some people seem to make a big thing of meals /eating i just eat enough and that's it. never been fat in my life, lucky really i guess.
Plenty of Nervous energy and not really ever laid back that might burn a few calories possibly.
don't see it changing whilst im working and might help the right way as ive stopped beer now as thats nothing nutritionally is it, and its bitter and not that nice i think after recent bout of flu so wont bother with any more.simple.
just dont eat so much and drink lots of tea would be my rec, to try for awhile . at least

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I'd be similar to you but a snitch lighter. Don't drink alcohol but drink a fair bit of tea/coffee- often decafe.

I can often skip a meal or basically work for half a day with no breakfast. Hard to explain but I just don't get hungry like other people might.

ollie989898 said:

I'd be similar to you but a snitch lighter. Don't drink alcohol but drink a fair bit of tea/coffee- often decafe.

I can often skip a meal or basically work for half a day with no breakfast. Hard to explain but I just don't get hungry like other people might.

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As long as i dont have breakfast i could near go to lunch time ,my problem is my mouth hole is twice the size of my arsehole

davidroberts30 said:

As long as i dont have breakfast i could near go to lunch time ,my problem is my mouth hole is twice the size of my arsehole

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Thats not what the rumours have said...

Long story short, that diagram tells you everything you need to know. Reduce sugar and starchy carbs and eat more fat. Healthy fat though which is a subject all of its own. Eat fat as near to its original form as possible. So no seed oils, they’re death on a plate.

Everyone is getting fatter and sicker because they are eating too much green area. Eat more blue and you will be surprised how hunger disappears. No need to go full keto at all. Lots of people will tell you to cut out carbs but it‘s what you replace carbs with that is crucial.

I still don't full understand the seed oil thing


This likes seed oils

SilliamWhale said:

I still don't full understand the seed oil thing

Fats and Cholesterol

When it comes to dietary fat, what matters most is the type of fat you eat. Contrary to past dietary advice promoting low-fat diets, newer research shows that healthy fats are necessary and benefic…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

This likes seed oils

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Just use olive oil or butter

SilliamWhale said:

I still don't full understand the seed oil thing

Fats and Cholesterol

When it comes to dietary fat, what matters most is the type of fat you eat. Contrary to past dietary advice promoting low-fat diets, newer research shows that healthy fats are necessary and benefic…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

This likes seed oils

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That link starts really well, which is a surprise given it’s Harvard. But then it goes downhill. It is a confusing subject, not helped by the terminology used which seems designed to actually be confusing. Eg some polyunsaturated oils are good for us in small amounts, and others are bad. And it’s the bad ones (linoleic acid which is an omega 6 oil) that we’re consuming in huge amounts without even knowing it. I sympathise completely. Harvard are still clearly operating on what was understood to be true in the last century.

I could bombard you with quality info on this but Zoe Harcombe is as good a place to start as any.

davidroberts30 said:

Just use olive oil or butter

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Specifically cold pressed olive oil, usually called extra virgin. If it’s not that then it’s probably been refined using the high temps and chemicals that the other seed oils are made with, which is part of why they’re so bad.

Basics are;
Monounsaturated good, help yourself.
Saturated fine, in any quantity, just look at the Innuit before they started eating our cr@p.
Polyunsaturated - some are essential but only in small quantities. Others are bad, but you will struggle to find a doctor that knows about all this. Fortunately the number of doctors who do is growing.

snarling bee said:

I am now at my heaviest ever, and need to lose some. I have had a few friends recommend these carb free diets. Any Tips?

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I'm six weeks into a carnivore diet, and ten kilos down so far. And that's with five or six days off it for Christmas.

It's all very well having all this advice about tweaking lifestyles, but if you're anything like me, you need to get your body into a decent starting position first, and that involves losing a lot of weight.

What I'm on now is a once a day meal, as early in the evening as possible (about 5pm) consisting of a sausage, a beef burger, a thick slice of bacon, a lump of black pudding and a chicken breast all cooked together in the oven for 45 minutes with a nob of butter. Two eggs go in for the last ten minutes, and I try and eat a couple of ounces of liver pate while I'm waiting. I drink tea with milk, but had a week of just water mid December, and it wasn't too bad, and I might go back to that.
It took a bit of figuring out what I could eat without bread/potatoes long term, and without spending a fortune on steak! It turns out I can't stand plain mince.
I might try a few other things yet, YouTube has plenty of people giving some weird advice, but there's some good bits in there too. A joint of beef in a slow cooker with butter, and just living off that and water for a few days looks quite appealing.

A couple of things that helped:
Scotch eggs! Before getting used to no carbs, a basic supermarket scotch egg got me through hungry mornings.
Ignore the 'eat all the meat you want' recommendations. I have (had?) a vast appetite, and to start with I cooked huge plates of meat to eat until I was full, but it was far too much. I've found that by eating the above, while I'm not completely full immediately afterwards, I am an hour later, and I'm not needing anything except cups of tea for the next 23 hours.

I've got another 20kg to go, which I'm hoping to get to long before the summer, and then I'll be in a far better physical position to live a healthier lifestyle and diet, and make sure I don't get back to this situation.

DaveGrohl said:

That link starts really well, which is a surprise given it’s Harvard. But then it goes downhill. It is a confusing subject, not helped by the terminology used which seems designed to actually be confusing. Eg some polyunsaturated oils are good for us in small amounts, and others are bad. And it’s the bad ones (linoleic acid which is an omega 6 oil) that we’re consuming in huge amounts without even knowing it. I sympathise completely. Harvard are still clearly operating on what was understood to be true in the last century.

I could bombard you with quality info on this but Zoe Harcombe is as good a place to start as any.

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Linoleic and linolenic fatty acids are essential fatty acids- human metabolism does not have any way of manufacturing them.

Omega 6 fatty acids can be found in meat, eggs and fish. Eggs contain Omega 3 and Omega 6, the proportions can vary according to the diet of the birds involved. I'm not sure this diet thing is as simple as don't eat X or Y.

Ffermer Bach said:

I like the simplicity of it, it appeals to my "tidy" mind and I think the two days a week of very few carbs is good for resetting any insulin resistance, so hopefully making sure I don't become type 2 diabetic.

Looking into diet, has made me realise that a lot of the things we knew about what is healthy, is actually either based on no firm science or is a result of vested interests.

I found this a very interesting book

Spoon-fed

<b>tim spector</b> is a professor of genetic epidemiology at king's college london and honorary consultant physician at guy's and st thomas' hospitals. he is a multi-award-winning expert in personalised medicine and the gut microbiome, and the author of five books, including the bestsellers...

www.ryefieldbooks.com

The only thing I have issues with, is his opinions on being veggie and cattle's effect on soil when integrated into the mixed farming system and soil carbon drawdown.

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I've read it too. It's a good read but rather frustrating ultimately. He has a habit of talking himself round in a circle. And you're right, he makes comments about meat and farming aspects that he clearly has next to no knowledge of, which is a shame as he's an extremely learned chap in his field. On the whole good though. Lots of interesting snippets such as people who get a fitbit are heavier 12 months later.

Exercise is good for all sorts of health reasons, but won't help you reduce weight long-term. That has to be through diet.

SilliamWhale said:

Carboydrates aren't bad. They are essential. But its in the form they come.

Its a bit like comparing fruit juice with whole fruit. The fibre in the fruit is more important than the sugars in the juices!

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Carbohydrates are NOT essential. There are Essential Fatty Acids and there are Essential Amino Acids but there are NO Essential Carbohydrates.

Decades of wrong-headed official health advice would have us believe otherwise. Indeed, google's usual suspects will make you believe carbs are essential. It's scientifically incorrect. Glucose is essential yes, it's so essential that our bodies can make their own glucose from other sources, called gluconeogenesis. But we don't NEED to eat glucose.

You're bang on the money with fruit.

ollie989898 said:

Linoleic and linolenic fatty acids are essential fatty acids- human metabolism does not have any way of manufacturing them.

Omega 6 fatty acids can be found in meat, eggs and fish. Eggs contain Omega 3 and Omega 6, the proportions can vary according to the diet of the birds involved. I'm not sure this diet thing is as simple as don't eat X or Y.

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It's the ratios that are important, omega 6 is an inflammatory. And alot of our processed foods are way higher in omega 6 than we would come across in a natural diet

ollie989898 said:

Linoleic and linolenic fatty acids are essential fatty acids- human metabolism does not have any way of manufacturing them.

Omega 6 fatty acids can be found in meat, eggs and fish. Eggs contain Omega 3 and Omega 6, the proportions can vary according to the diet of the birds involved. I'm not sure this diet thing is as simple as don't eat X or Y.

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Indeed. However, you're missing a load of stuff there.

In the US over a third of daily calories are now coming from seed oils, mostly the industrially processed type. We're not far behind. They now have fat cells that are 20% linoleic acid (omega 6). This is a serious problem for cell membrane integrity as cells with high linoleic acid content become too soft. Polulations who have never eaten these seed oils typically have 3.8% in their cells. Linoleic acid is 40x more susceptible to oxidation that oleic acid (monounsaturated). Linoleic acid is highly inflammatory which is a serious problem on its own.

Prior to 1980 hardly anyone had non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Now it's estimated that around 45% of Americans have it to a degree. There is a Randomised Control Trial in the literature ( soz don't have the actual link) where every participant had NAFLD (as above). They removed linoleic acid from their diets and got a 100% cure rate.

Small amounts essential, large amounts terrible.

marco said:

It's the ratios that are important, omega 6 is an inflammatory. And alot of our processed foods are way higher in omega 6 than we would come across in a natural diet

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But linoleic fatty acids are Omega 6 fatty acids. They are essential to health as well. If you are saying should we stop frying food (especially processed foods) in oils per se then yes, I would agree with you. These are extremely calories dense substances and should not be appearing in our diet in large quantities as it will contribute to becoming obese. I'm not convinced eating a shed load of olive oil or peanut oil instead of sunflower, corn or other oils is the way forward- as I said before, it seems a whole lot more complex than that.

A good step forward for people is to simply eat less.