Tb are we(the English) winning the war?

matthew · Feb 12, 2024

Bruce Almighty said:
It worked in the past and I’m sure would work again. Carbon monoxide or dioxide could be used.

@matthew

Liz Wellington and her PCR test ?

Ffermer Bach said:
Our vet told us he believed gassing sets was a far better solution.

I think if it could be allied to a tb test for the badger latrines, then taking out all positive sets via gassing would be best. I don't know if that is possible. I remember reading somewhere that there was a study to find if a latrine was tb positive, but the researcher said she didn't want it to be used to condemn badgers (I can't remember where I read that).

Probably, you read it here.

This is encouraging..

It is always encouraging to find the opposition gathering their collective skirts and rushing headlong into a brick wall: usually somewhat ...

bovinetb.blogspot.com

And yes, with our encouragement, Owen Paterson threw Liz Wellington a substantial £742K bone to develop PCR for badger latrines, and yes it worked, and you correctly remember that her team did not want the test used to cull any badgers at all. Follow the money?

Interview on this link:

If it's good enough for the Aussies??

A new and said to be 'highly reliable' diagnostic solution - [link] for bovine tuberculosis, a major infectious disease among cattle, othe...

bovinetb.blogspot.com

and

You can lead a politician to information ....

* This post has been updated. This post is in direct response to the Secretary of State's reply in the House of Commons today, concernin...

bovinetb.blogspot.com

There is a very cosy relationship with certain 'scientists', researchers and universities - and in that group think, I include APHA civil servants. They do not want to cull badgers. End of. So, reluctantly, throw a bone to farmers (which they did) and the authorities are at arms length from any backlash.

I hold most of this bunch in absolute contempt.

frederick · Feb 12, 2024

Bury the Trash said:
bull sh!t get your facts right before telling untruth crap.
there just as many non nfu members as members contributing both physically and financially to the culls.
If you cant write correctly, truthfully and factually then better if you don't write anything .

That is bulls**t.
You are correct that not all people that signed up to the cull are members. But the NFU is the organisation that drove the cull forward and supported the development ofthe first culls. All the organisers of the first pilot culls here in the south west were NFU members who received huge help from the NFU in sorting the agreements with DEFRA and making the finance and logistics work and the reporting system.

Once the basics were established it was far easier to roll out subsequent culls with far less NFU input but they were still there.

I think it can be 100% stated without NFU support and drive their would still have been no badger cull areas in the UK.

frederick · Feb 12, 2024

lazy farmer said:
Latest accredited official statistics on tuberculosis (TB) in cattle in Great Britain - quarterly

Quarterly statistics on tuberculosis (TB) in cattle in Great Britain.

www.gov.uk

Not sure when these figures became available. But given the good news for English farmers I’m surprised
how little news this has made. Some of the falls are quite dramatic. Especially when compared to Wales and to a much lesser extent “TB free” Scotland.
Is this proof that the culls have worked? I would suggest yes but the data doesn’t cover this question.

In answer to lazys question probably not.

We have had a decisive victory following the science that has had a great impact.

However the battle field is about to change. Labour won't be allowing any new culling and even if the conservatives came back their are no votes for reversing Boris and carries change of attack.

So we have been shown how to win the war but are about to go back into battle blindfolded with one hand tied behind our back so in my view we are about to hit the bottom of the curve and then going to rise again even though by then the science will be indesputable.

We will be promised vaccination of both cows and badgers is the answer and I think it will remain 10 years away the same as it always has.

markbury1 · Feb 12, 2024

This week we will lose 35 milking cows which is one-third of our herd. We are in a cull area this has made no difference. Our small farm is now unviable After thirty years of culling cows I am giving up. I aim to create a large vegetable garden which I can manage with a tractor. If anyone wants to find me i will be in the garden shed sitting in the armchair watching channel 4 racing. Good luck to the rest of you.

frederick · Feb 12, 2024

markbury1 said:
This week we will lose 35 milking cows which is one-third of our herd. We are in a cull area this has made no difference. Our small farm is now unviable After thirty years of culling cows I am giving up. I aim to create a large vegetable garden which I can manage with a tractor. If anyone wants to find me i will be in the garden shed sitting in the armchair watching channel 4 racing. Good luck to the rest of you.

That's very sad to hear. How long have you been in a cull area. It's no magic bullet in the first year.

The sad fact is probably 34 of those cows were from cow to cow transmission but only one of them needed to come from a badger to start the problem.

We have just finished year 6 of the cull and I have so far lost 19 out of 260 in the last 6 months but there is no disputing that the situation around here is much better.
Found 80 badgers on the farm in the first year only 9 this year.

gone up the hill · Feb 12, 2024

frederick said:
In answer to lazys question probably not.

We have had a decisive victory following the science that has had a great impact.

However the battle field is about to change. Labour won't be allowing any new culling and even if the conservatives came back their are no votes for reversing Boris and carries change of attack.

So we have been shown how to win the war but are about to go back into battle blindfolded with one hand tied behind our back so in my view we are about to hit the bottom of the curve and then going to rise again even though by then the science will be indesputable.

We will be promised vaccination of both cows and badgers is the answer and I think it will remain 10 years away the same as it always has.

The only way they can vaccinate cattle is if the entire UK cattle herd is TB free.

Also as trade rules stand if we did vaccinate cattle we would lose most if not all of our beef export markets.

Vaccinating badgers is wind in the willows fantasy land rubbish.

Bury the Trash · Feb 12, 2024

frederick said:
the NFU is the organisation that drove the cull forward and supported the development ofthe first culls. All the organisers of the first pilot culls here in the south west were NFU members who received huge help from the NFU in sorting the agreements with DEFRA and making the finance and logistics work and the reporting system.

Once the basics were established it was far easier to roll out subsequent culls with far less NFU input but they were still there.

I think it can be 100% stated without NFU support and drive their would still have been no badger cull areas

I agree , the official culls are in place because of the nfu / members works I know that is the case and i have never written /said anything different to that.

Try reading / listening correctly.

Elaborating anymore on the subject is unwise on a public forum .

gone up the hill · Feb 12, 2024

frederick said:
That's very sad to hear. How long have you been in a cull area. It's no magic bullet in the first year.

The sad fact is probably 34 of those cows were from cow to cow transmission but only one of them needed to come from a badger to start the problem.

We have just finished year 6 of the cull and I have so far lost 19 out of 260 in the last 6 months but there is no disputing that the situation around here is much better.
Found 80 badgers on the farm in the first year only 9 this year.

Very unlikely it was cattle to cattle transmission for the other 34 cows!

Cattle to cattle is very rare, normally only happens if for example you have a high cell count cow with TB in the udder and you use her milk to feed the bucket reared calves.

frederick · Feb 12, 2024

gone up the hill said:
Very unlikely it was cattle to cattle transmission for the other 34 cows!

Cattle to cattle is very rare, normally only happens if for example you have a high cell count cow with TB in the udder and you use her milk to feed the bucket reared calves.

We can't just use the science we like.
It is proven that cattle to cattle transmission is far easier than badger to cattle.
TB is very easily transmitted which is why it is a problem in poor slums for people.

But it takes a badger to place it in the herd most of the time. Again farmers are still not immune to blame here because they will turn up to a farm sale 10 days after that farms first clear status in 6 years and spread the cows all over the country.

But badgers are a pivotal pin in a tool box of many choices available to us to control tb.

I have only recently learnt though it's obvious when pointed out that the use of rock salt in an infected herd is an extremely bad idea.

lazy farmer · Feb 12, 2024

markbury1 said:
This week we will lose 35 milking cows which is one-third of our herd. We are in a cull area this has made no difference. Our small farm is now unviable After thirty years of culling cows I am giving up. I aim to create a large vegetable garden which I can manage with a tractor. If anyone wants to find me i will be in the garden shed sitting in the armchair watching channel 4 racing. Good luck to the rest of you.

Sorry to hear you are giving up.the stress from experience will have hideous. You have obviously been working incredibly hard as channel 4 haven’t had the racing for yrs now.
try the itv stations

Kidds · Feb 12, 2024

frederick said:
Found 80 badgers on the farm in the first year only 9 this year.

That alone tells you how bad the situation had got regardless of tb.

Princess Pooper · Feb 12, 2024

gone up the hill said:
Very unlikely it was cattle to cattle transmission for the other 34 cows!

Cattle to cattle is very rare, normally only happens if for example you have a high cell count cow with TB in the udder and you use her milk to feed the bucket reared calves.

We had another breakdown from Nov 22 to Sept 23, lost 15 animals after being clear for a year from some small intermittent breakdowns. As one of the first reactors had lesions, we had Gamma bloods (although it took APHA an awful long time to get round to it). One of the animals that failed on bloods but had passed the skin test multiple times including in that breakdown was found to have lesions in her intestine.

She had nearly been an IR about 3 years previous and we had hum-ed and ha-ed about sending her as a cull but decided against - we do frequently send those 'near misses' as well as culling any one time IRs once we are clear.

I think it is highly likely that she had been spreading it in her muck. Our badger numbers are drastically reduced now due to culling and I suspect the drought of 2022 so we had been particularly upset as a closed herd to have gone down again.

sidjon · Feb 12, 2024

frederick said:
We can't just use the science we like.
It is proven that cattle to cattle transmission is far easier than badger to cattle.
TB is very easily transmitted which is why it is a problem in poor slums for people.

But it takes a badger to place it in the herd most of the time. Again farmers are still not immune to blame here because they will turn up to a farm sale 10 days after that farms first clear status in 6 years and spread the cows all over the country.

But badgers are a pivotal pin in a tool box of many choices available to us to control tb.

I have only recently learnt though it's obvious when pointed out that the use of rock salt in an infected herd is an extremely bad idea.

Not so sure about the ease of cattle to cattle , for us 1600 head at highest point of lock down over 30 year down , all cattle direct to slaughter 4 animals found at slaughter with btb lesions 1 of them positive, 30% of red deer of Exmoor have btb, @matthew will have the NI tb information when cattle were shut In sheds and transmission was very low, most of the new research seem to be mathematical modelling not hard data, we were Involved many years ago with research with Warwick University, seemed In the end they were just using mathematical modelling to stop culling, not btb

jondear · Feb 12, 2024

Werzle said:
Culling badgers is a vital tool in helping lowering tb infection but there is still plenty of farms that have had the cull and gamma testing still rumbling on with fresh tb outbreaks every 3-5 years. The welsh are crying out for culling badgers but it isnt going to be the miracle cure they hope its going to be. Deer dont spread it anywhere near as bad but there numbers have exploded which is a concern going forward.

We have been clear for 12 months .Before that always in and out of restrictions .Lots more deer about especially fallow .They don't seem to spread it to cattle the same if at all .

sidjon · Feb 12, 2024

jondear said:
We have been clear for 12 months .Before that always in and out of restrictions .Lots more deer about especially fallow .They don't seem to spread it to cattle the same if at all .

Deer when they died are the problem, cattle go a investigate and seem to pick it up from there, but there are some large deer herd up here , youngstock farm can have over 160 red hinds at times

devonbeef · Feb 12, 2024

Holsteinfriesian90 said:
I think if it’s done right it’s good if it’s not all your doing is moving badgers to your neighbours.

well i paid up supported cull, for me a total disaster, had badgers on the farm , never had trouble before with my badgers within 18 months of cull, my whole herd was wiped out with tb, new infected badgers moved into sets, so not good for me i can not be the only one to. Our testers saying it's on the rise again around here, more farms going down again so it was good for ones who had infected sets for those that did not ,not so good. (the other side to the story.)

Holsteinfriesian90 · Feb 12, 2024

devonbeef said:
well i paid up supported cull, for me a total disaster, had badgers on the farm , never had trouble before with my badgers within 18 months of cull, my whole herd was wiped out with tb, new infected badgers moved into sets, so not good for me i can not be the only one to. Our testers saying it's on the rise again around here, more farms going down again so it was good for ones who had infected sets for those that did not ,not so good. (the other side to the story.)

You’re not the only one. I’ve heard of farms that culled hard in the first couple of years but now the empty sets are filling up again.

sidjon · Feb 12, 2024

Holsteinfriesian90 said:
You’re not the only one. I’ve heard of farms that culled hard in the first couple of years but now the empty sets are filling up again.

Ours refill every year, doesn't help we're farming up against three charity land owners ,who are "savings the wildlife "

BuskhillFarm · Feb 12, 2024

In N Ireland, Daera did a 5 year test Badgers for TB and cull if infected or vaccinate and release, the findings of the whole survey came back as badgers spread TB to cattle and vis versa..(something we knew without spending millions and for years) but at least it’s a scientific conclusion.

So as a follow up to their study they are choosing to go down the route of doing nothing (not because of eco mentalists for a change) But if they eradicate TB there would be no jobs for the Vets (private money tree or Daera one)

We’ve eradicated Brucellosis here, I even got an email thanking me for my part, at 9:05 one morning, at 9:15 I had another email asking if I’d like to take voluntary redundancy, from 30 Animal Health and Welfare inspectors in one office, I think there’s 3 now

In the pit · Feb 12, 2024

The best form of badger culling is gassing the sett and then digger to fill in ,as too stop other badgers moving in .its what they did in the past and it worked a treat ,easy and pain free for everyone involved and it guarantees to get every badger in a sett

Tb are we(the English) winning the war?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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