Tb are we(the English) winning the war?

[Scholsey]

There was thought a few years ago, that because of the possibility of soil contamination by earthworms, control of Lumbricus terrestris would suffice. So the solution? Wipe out earthworms. Nature's min till soil excavators. Wonderful. You really couldn't make it up.

Link to that little gem at the end of this 2016 posting:

End of the Summer term.

It seems that around July and August every year, a raft of papers are produced, their authors gad off with buckets and spades, the BBC medi...

bovinetb.blogspot.com

The best disinfectant is a bullet of course, but while m.bovis is a wax jacketed survivor, UV light (sunshine) does the job very well in a few hours. But half cooked bacteria, are more lethal than fresh.

What’s the current thinking on TB in deer passing to cattle? Some of the parcels I go on I can see 50+ deer with the thermal, not a fan of venison or deer stalking, looks like the equivalent of shooting 6 month old heifers to me!

 

[Bury the Trash]

Not an nfu fan here, but they where bloody brilliant in regards getting the cull off the ground here and the running of it (West Somerset pilot) it has made a huge difference to tb in the area.
Dead deer is the main problem now. Our most recent breakdown was a cow who outwintered on kale, we came across a red deer carcass half way through the winter. 99% certain it died of tb, lots of cases in the deer.
sad for the wildlife.

far less deer around ours than your area no doubt ,and only Roe.

was a lot a few yrs back, got to a peak i should think, very sucessfull breeders ,often with twins .
now controlled pretty well, i haven't seen one for some time. which is good for the ood sapling planting and good for them really because the most common time we used to find them is under the mower when cutting for silage.
odd one still around, because we see they pull about the wires of electric fences near the woods and river occasionally.
rabbits is the next bad problem to address

 

[bactosoil]

TB enters macrophages in the body to hide from the host.

It cannot survive in soil this way. But TB is though to be able to survive in soil in at least some circumstances and remain infectious after a prolonged period of time. 12 months in laboratory incubated conditions, other sources suggest 3 months in natural weather conditions. How likely infection via this medium is, however, something else entirely.

Long-term survival of tuberculosis complex mycobacteria in soil

While there is evidence for the persistence of Mycobacterium bovis in soil, there are no reports for the other Mycobacterium tuberculosis complex (MTC) mycobacteria. Here, soil was inoculated with 108 c.f.u. g−1 M. tuberculosis, M. bovis and M. canettii and subcultured monthly for 12 months. The...

www.microbiologyresearch.org

Discussion

Here, we observed that three MTC species can survive in soil for 12 months. This observation was verified by the fact that the negative control plates, which were incubated in parallel with inoculated plates, remained sterile throughout the 12-month duration of the experiment, indicating that the growth of MTC mycobacteria reported herein did not merely result from contamination of the soil prior to or after experimental inoculation. Moreover, all of the colonies were conclusively identified using MALDI-TOF-MS as being the same Mycobacterium species as that used for the inoculation (El Khéchine et al., 2011). In particular, non-tuberculosis mycobacteria that are known as common soil inhabitants (Salah et al., 2009) were not identified in either control or inoculated plates.

These observations are entirely novel for M. canettii. This particular species, the agent of human tuberculosis in the Horn of Africa, is thought to have an environmental, yet unknown, reservoir (Koeck et al., 2011). Data herein reported indicate that M. canettii can significantly achieve more sustained survival in soil than M. tuberculosis and M. bovis. These data suggest it would be interesting to investigate the presence of M. canettii in soil samples collected in M. canettii-endemic regions.

A unique Russian report indicated that three different strains of M. tuberculosis, including the H37Rv strain studied herein, could be cultured for no longer than 3 months after being seeded in natural turf–podzol sandy soil (Kozlov & Rotov, 1977). Several reports have indicated that M. bovis is able to survive in soil (Walter et al., 2012). One previous study, using PCR-based detection, found mpb64 and mpb70 MTC-specific sequences in soil sampled from an Irish farm that had a history of bovine tuberculosis, and no incoming infected bovines and badgers after culling, for as long as 15 months after possible contamination. The sequences exhibited >99 % identity to reference M. bovis sequences (Young et al., 2005). Nevertheless, experimental inoculation of other farm soil with the M. bovis BCG Pasteur strain revealed a rapid decrease in both living cells and DNA content, and the influence of both temperature and humidity in such decay processes (Young et al., 2005).

Likewise, PCR-based detection of the mpb70 gene was positive in 47 % of the soil samples collected in badger setts (tunnels) from 60 UK farms in six bovine tuberculosis-endemic regions; furthermore, 16S rRNA detection was indicative of viable organisms (Courtenay et al., 2006). Refined real-time PCR detecting the DR4 region confirmed that all badger setts tested on a UK farm in 2006 were positive for M. bovis (Sweeney et al., 2007).

More convincing evidence was provided by culture-based observations. M. bovis organisms were previously isolated from a water sample, but not from soil samples, collected from a naturally infected badger yard (Little et al., 1982). Moreover, M. bovis organisms could be isolated 4 weeks after artificial contamination of the soil (Duffield & Young, 1985), for 6 weeks from exposed naturally infected buffalo tissues and for 4 weeks from spiked buffalo faeces; however, M. bovis could be isolated for only 5 days from buried tissues (Tanner & Michel, 1999).

In these previous studies, contamination by rapidly growing soil inhabitants may have hampered the further recovery of viable M. bovis cells from infected soil samples (Young et al., 2005). Refined immune-trapping of M. bovis was crucial to avoiding contamination and helped to grow M. bovis mycobacteria within 4 weeks from the soil of 7/7 badger setts (Sweeney et al., 2007). It was recently shown that M. bovis survived as long as 88 days in soil under natural weather conditions (Fine et al., 2011).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5407823/ (2017) just the first paper picked off google


''Our laboratory conditions had probably been far different from field conditions where temperature fluctuations, moisture variations, UV radiation and competition with abundant and diverse microorganisms are detrimental to mycobacteria survival. M. bovis survival length observed in this study is probably longer than survival length under environmental conditions. In order to tackle the gap of knowledge about parameters conditioning M. bovis survival in soils, laboratory studies have to be set up to determine major factors involved in M. bovis survival.

Significant differences in the detection of M. bovis DNA between biotic and sterile soils were observed with the qPCR-based assay since the first day of the experiment. This might reflect a qPCR bias: i.e., dilution of the target M. bovis DNA in variable concentrations of soil metagenomic DNA following soil DNA extraction from biotic or sterile soil samples.

Extensive studies on a larger number of well-characterised and contrasted soils are required to target the key edaphic factors that promote M. bovis survival in soil. Further work is needed to determine the physiological state and virulence of M. bovis soil populations detected by qPCR and to confirm the occurrence non-cultivable or dormant cells capable of resuscitation under specific growth conditions''

While the above paper suggests a short lifetime in soil as most papers say 'more work is needed and really this is reflected in many papers with multiple caveats ,once bTB goes dormant within a cell my understanding is its virtually undetectable

In talking to quiet a few professors of microbiology who have been involved directly with Btb there is a frustration that there is reservoir of M.bovis is in the “environment” and it is an important part of the infectious cycle of bTB in the UK/Ireland. There is lots of hard science to support this from epidemiological modelling to the molecular mechanisms of bacterial persistence in the environmental and they have tried to make similar arguments to me , that if we properly understood how the bacterium persists in the environment and how this contributes and maybe increases infectivity of the bacterium, then we would be in a better position to tackle this part of the infectious cycle,but It has not proved a universally popular approach! Aside the scientific detail of this, there are practical aspects that have been neglected. For example, if M.bovis persists in amoebae in the environment then the government certified disinfectants for bTB farms should be effective against bacteria in amoebae, yet none have been tested for this and we already know that some disinfectant chemistries are ineffective on intra-amoebic bacteria.
Most bTB transmission is cattle to cattle but if one ignores M.bovis persistence in the environment then we’ll never get on top of the problem

I still believe Btb to hide in the the soil and and when hiding, a cell is almost impossible to accurately asses , its only when a trigger is introduced will it then break free , while only on a very small scale i have witnesses blind in situ/probe trigger reactor testing on farms without any history of btb /outbreaks and persistence and it was surprisingly how good the results were .
The trouble is while in my mind a full lifecycle of Btb that includes long term dormancy in the environment seems to be just obvious , I appreciate others dont agree , but it doesn't mean this concept is wrong , its could just be possible though we just haven't looked it in the right way .

 

[sidjon]

What’s the current thinking on TB in deer passing to cattle? Some of the parcels I go on I can see 50+ deer with the thermal, not a fan of venison or deer stalking, looks like the equivalent of shooting 6 month old heifers to me!

Year 2 of tb red deer cull on Exmoor, in year1 30 odd % had VL BTB

 

[matthew]

What’s the current thinking on TB in deer passing to cattle? Some of the parcels I go on I can see 50+ deer with the thermal, not a fan of venison or deer stalking, looks like the equivalent of shooting 6 month old heifers to me!

If deer share trough feeding, then transmission is likely. As in US - Michigan. But as we found in PQs, the amount of cfu in cattle and deer are very very small, so direct transmission is rare.

@bactosoil : too many assumptions, most incorrect. Take out the known wildlife reservoir and the problem disappears. Stir up an infectious population and scatter them - makes the problem worse.

Our cattle industry is not a milch cow for academics to pull on, using wild assumptions, many ‘probables’ and the need for ‘more research’.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Stir up an infectious population and scatter them

that the downfall of a non universal wildlife cull , this Country/Ireland has too many people with so many diverse types land owning now for it to be effective.
rest of Europe ??

New Zealand a different matter.

'gamekeeping true 'countryman type /interest / responsibilities ..that go with owning/managing land here are a thing of the past unfortunately, or at least well out of fashion.

 

[tinsheet]

far less deer around ours than your area no doubt ,and only Roe.

was a lot a few yrs back, got to a peak i should think, very sucessfull breeders ,often with twins .
now controlled pretty well, i haven't seen one for some time. which is good for the ood sapling planting and good for them really because the most common time we used to find them is under the mower when cutting for silage.
odd one still around, because we see they pull about the wires of electric fences near the woods and river occasionally.
rabbits is the next bad problem to address

We've got Red, Roe, and a few fallow round here.
Red are the main problem, I've got a group of 15 hinds that I see regularly, and 11 stags just down the road, the further up the hill you go the worse it gets, mate regularly sees 50 or so running about, up on the moor their almost infested..
Don't get me wrong enjoy seeing them but not in this number or frequency.

 

[matthew]

that the downfall of a non universal wildlife cull , this Country/Ireland has too many people with so many diverse types land owning now for it to be effective.
rest of Europe ??

New Zealand a different matter.

'gamekeeping true 'countryman type /interest / responsibilities ..that go with owning/managing land here are a thing of the past unfortunately, or at least well out of fashion.

Rest of Europe?
France report problems to the local mayor, and la chasse (hunt) deal with it.

Germany routinely cull annually to protect crops, buildings and general infrastructure.

Not just for Zoonotic tuberculosis ...

... are badgers controlled in other member states within the European Union. Still operating under the Berne Convention, and with closed sea...

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Poland and eastern countries have shoots, including wild boar.





All to keep populations in check. And no doubt, healthier.

NZ dropped poison from helicopters, tying yellow warning ribbons to trees in the area, to keep dogs, cats and grannies away. Then buried the poison pellets in carrots to protect bird life.

England? Pass the buck, the cost and the responsibility to farmers. The only country with an eradication commitment to zoonotic tuberculosis, to do so.

Wales? Shoot the cattle.

Scotland? Declare TB free, and cross fingers. On four year testing.

Ireland is planning on dropping valuer cattle valuations for tabular after finding the budget blown.

 

[In the pit]

South Africa have a 1 km zone around a farm with tb ,,were they cull all animals what can carry it

 

[sidjon]

South Africa have a 1 km zone around a farm with tb ,,were they cull all animals what can carry it

Wildlife pressure would be huge were cattle come in contact ,Cape buffalo are a walking disease problem, and not just btb

 

[matthew]

Australia used helicopters to round up feral cattle and water buffalo, coralled the lot and canned them for dog food.

BTEC in Australia - pest destruction Oz style

Some countries around the world have wildlife reservoirs of bTb - but how they deal with them, is very much dependent on their government's ...

bovinetb.blogspot.com

 

[bactosoil]

If deer share trough feeding, then transmission is likely. As in US - Michigan. But as we found in PQs, the amount of cfu in cattle and deer are very very small, so direct transmission is rare.

@bactosoil : too many assumptions, most incorrect. Take out the known wildlife reservoir and the problem disappears. Stir up an infectious population and scatter them - makes the problem worse.

Our cattle industry is not a milch cow for academics to pull on, using wild assumptions, many ‘probables’ and the need for ‘more research’.

I am not an academic or a scientist but I have been involved in research in other areas of soil health that i paid for out of own pocket , i totally accept and not arguing that about badgers etc , but just saying i believe there
is a good argument to say bTB dormancy in soils and triggers can contribute to bTB outbreaks/reoccurrences , its reassuring to me that eminent professors in the uk and abroad don't disagree and that's a good starting point for an open mind i think .

 

[ringi]

The only way they can vaccinate cattle is if the entire UK cattle herd is TB free.

Also as trade rules stand if we did vaccinate cattle we would lose most if not all of our beef export markets

Not true, there are new "marker vaccines" and a modified skin test that can tell the difference between a vaccinated cow and an infected cow. But unlikely to be able to live export vaccined cows, but vaccination of some cows will not stop unvaccinated cows being exported.

The modified skin test is being verified over the next few year, until it is verified there is no practical way to test how well the marker vaccine works.

 

[matthew]

Not true, there are new "marker vaccines" and a modified skin test that can tell the difference between a vaccinated cow and an infected cow. But unlikely to be able to live export vaccined cows, but vaccination of some cows will not stop unvaccinated cows being exported.

The modified skin test is being verified over the next few year, until it is verified there is no practical way to test how well the marker vaccine works.

Bless your little cotton socks @ringi

The DIVA test has been tested out for at least 20 years, possibly more. It is a blood test (or was) under veterinary supervision. and accurate it is not. And at +£20 a shot, it is expensive. Trying to differentiate between cattle that have been vaccinated with a vax that is not 100 per cent, and those that have not, in a situation where the increasing 'environmental' challange in many areas is just huge, is for the birds..

Our industry is not a beneficial opportunity for academics to play with, and earn a berluddy pension from. We wrote about this in 2007 - 2012 and gave links to previous research. Nothing has changed.

History repeats itself

It is said that evidence of stupidity, madness or psychosis is repeating an activity but expecting a different outcome. Why would there b...

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BCG vaccination - cattle

And now to cattle BCG vaccines: heavily promoted by guitarist, pop idol and astrophysicist Dr. Brian May as 'only months away' with no obv...

bovinetb.blogspot.com

 

[ringi]

This is one of the new skin tests being developed https://bulletin.woah.org/?panorama=3-11-bcg-diva-en

Some details on the UK government undefunded (hence very slow) trails https://aphascience.blog.gov.uk/2020/09/02/tb-vaccine-field-trials/

An overview (partly written by PR people employed to make governmentlook good) https://tbhub.co.uk/resources/frequ...a-deployable-tuberculosis-vaccine-for-cattle/

One of the many studies looking at responce of vaccine in calfs https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37375479/ however like all current study don't give "reallife results" as farm scale study can't start until new skin test is licensed.

 

[matthew]

Some of the links I gave in those posts, were field trials. Some lasting years, some in Ethiopia. None were successful.

As i said, our industry is not a 'beneficial crisis' for academics on a mission.

 

[Scholsey]

Almost every other country in the world have managed to control BTB with the tools available it’s only this country which has allowed ministry vets to keep themselves in a job by making a relatively simple job borderline impossible.

Every new breakdown in cull zone should have a minibus full of APHA employees working out the source and trapping/working with marksmen to sort it and don’t stop until the breakdowns over. No one actually wants to sort this problem including a lot of farmers, and why would they with AFU calves/stores being as cheap as they are?!?

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

Almost every other country in the world have managed to control BTB with the tools available it’s only this country which has allowed ministry vets to keep themselves in a job by making a relatively simple job borderline impossible.

Every new breakdown in cull zone should have a minibus full of APHA employees working out the source and trapping/working with marksmen to sort it and don’t stop until the breakdowns over. No one actually wants to sort this problem including a lot of farmers, and why would they with AFU calves/stores being as cheap as they are?!?

You’re absolutely right. All they want to do if your in a cull zone is do a gamma test. We have just had one and I don’t think I’ve ever felt so mentally and physically exhausted by it all.

 

[ringi]

Politically it is impossible to force culling on UK land owners.

 

[Scholsey]

You’re absolutely right. All they want to do if your in a cull zone is do a gamma test. We have just had one and I don’t think I’ve ever felt so mentally and physically exhausted by it all.

It feels like APHA/Defra have no interest in actually getting rid of the disease otherwise they would actually do more now cull companies have finally got the disease on the back foot in large areas.