First sheepdog

Dave6170 · Jan 18, 2023

I am thinking about getting my first sheepdog! I would get a puppy locally I think.

where do I start regarding training?

I don’t want a trials dog just 1 that can round up sheep to a pen, help in the rappa and move them around fields.

andyt87 · Jan 18, 2023

There's far more qualified people than me to answer this but you sound like me 2 years ago. I was fed up of the farm dogs being rubbish but too old to train and too much someone else's dog to work for me.

Got pup off neighbour when taking there escaping easycare billy back. Lots on YouTube and online. Got the Harfords Apprentice book when I bought a Logan whistle. Plenty of basics in there. The book isn't rocket science mind and I'm not sure it's worth £10. If I can find it later I'll PM you the useful stuff

You'll want some sort of round pen for teaching sides and keeping distance on flanks.

Worth the time though. I took him for one 30 minute lesson with a pro when he was fixing sheep too much and wouldn't move. Answer was to not let him near sheep in shed unless he was working them through pens.

HarryB97 · Jan 18, 2023

My first dog I bought off a local Shephard who also does a lot of trialling and I went back once a month for lessons and advice, worked well. It’s pretty easy to train a dog, nail the basics of recall and stand etc then get a round pen to teach the sides. Then it’s just work out into a small paddock and introduce them to work. A lot of people over complicate it but for a farm dog it’s fairly straight forward, don’t over command and try to let them think for themselves and use their own instinct.

Welderloon · Jan 18, 2023

As above, get a proper young pup then its your own, choose the pup wisely, spend plenty time with it not just shutting it in a pen all day.
Introduce it gradually & don't blow its mind or be too hard on it initially & don't get too frustrated.
As it is getting introduced/used to stock, occasionally take it where other dogs are being used/worked so it has a bit of a clue but avoid the brainless pot lickers that some people seem to keep which need bawled at & fail to follow commands.
The more time you put in the better the dog you will end up with providing they have got what it takes in the first place........remember some just don't have it.

som farmer · Jan 18, 2023

what l have found, keep the pup with you, box in truck, tractor etc, then it learns to respect you. No shouting/cussing.
drive round field boundaries, so gets the 'idea' of rounding up
teach it stop/sit/down, on command, and the left/right, and go back.
a good pup picks it up nearly on it's own.
leave it on it's own, in a kennel, all day, makes hard work of training.

a good dog, doesn't need to be trial standard, it needs to respect, and obey you. Ours worked cattle more than sheep. Without 1 at the moment, sadly lost the last one, rat poison. To old to train another one now, left to the next generation.

Dave6170 · Jan 18, 2023

I hope to find 1 from July onwards. Lambing, calving then I go off spraying so wouldn’t have the time for it till after.

Do any of you keep them in the house while they are young or should I put it straight in the kennel in the shed?

Welderloon · Jan 18, 2023

Hmmmm a very contentious point, I'm a collie owner, nothing else. I only ever let my dog in the house when temp is below -6deg C at night & only into the porch.........hes a working dog, its a change for him but in reality he would be just as happy in his kennel.........he's never been house trained but has never sh*t or p*ssed in the house..........only thing he did do was went right into the kitchen one day the outside door was open & walloped the joint of silverside sitting on the worktop...............his expectations were swiftly re-aligned that day as was my lunch

HarryB97 · Jan 18, 2023

Dave6170 said:
I hope to find 1 from July onwards. Lambing, calving then I go off spraying so wouldn’t have the time for it till after.

Do any of you keep them in the house while they are young or should I put it straight in the kennel in the shed?

All of mine live in the house at night, the youngest two in the utility and the oldest roams about the kitchen and hallway. They go in kennels behind the house in the evening whilst they eat dinner etc then come in. The cold does their joints no good and the risk of being stolen, my 3 spend each evening lying by the fire at the minute. Luckily have a hot shower in the yard so they stay clean!

Dave6170 · Jan 18, 2023

We have a Labrador and 2 terriers in the house already. Don’t really want anymore inside. I thought having it inside to begin with then move it outside but maybe that’s the wrong thing to do.

dad has had mainly bitches, he says they answer better and their brain isn’t ruled by their balls like a dog.
Anyone prefer 1 over the other?

andyt87 · Jan 18, 2023

Dave6170 said:
I hope to find 1 from July onwards. Lambing, calving then I go off spraying so wouldn’t have the time for it till after.

Do any of you keep them in the house while they are young or should I put it straight in the kennel in the shed?

Timing to get one is hard then, but I'd get it before that or you'll be starting training in crap weather/short days. Good thing about a pup now is it'll be ready for starting training July onwards. As long as you have time to do a bit of socialising/basic commands (sit/stay etc) side of it now.

Mine are in house if I am, area/wet room if wet/dirty then put in kennel when I go out or to bed. They'll be happy whatever as long as they get the work they need

Dave6170 · Jan 18, 2023

andy_tee87 said:
Timing to get one is hard then, but I'd get it before that or you'll be starting training in crap weather/short days. Good thing about a pup now is it'll be ready for starting training July onwards. As long as you have time to do a bit of socialising/basic commands (sit/stay etc) side of it now.

Mine are in house if I am, area/wet room if wet/dirty then put in kennel when I go out or to bed. They'll be happy whatever as long as they get the work they need

Suppose my wife can do the puppy socialising stuff just the same as I can when I’m not there.

Humble Village Farmer · Jan 18, 2023

If you're going to get one, now is a good time as @andy_tee87 says, because the evenings will be lighter and paddocks in better nick when you start training.

One thing to watch out for which can ruin a dog (and you if you get in the way) is having a new one around at lambing and calving. If the dog gets knocked about by a ewe or hides behind you from a fiercely protective cow, it could be disastrous on lots of different levels.

Greythundercloudys · Jan 18, 2023

I don't train dog, but my dad was very in to trialing, he away had a young one threw the winter, had 20 ewe lmbs in a field and would go out every day for 30mins and just play away with it on a long rope to start, then foot in the collar, the sheep would be better trained than the dog after afew weeks. I try and pick them up working at 3 or 4 years old. Good luck, but don't let it get hit by an old ewe ,it will never forget it.

Dextersg · Jan 18, 2023

Dave6170 said:
I am thinking about getting my first sheepdog! I would get a puppy locally I think.

where do I start regarding training?

I don’t want a trials dog just 1 that can round up sheep to a pen, help in the rappa and move them around fields.

I got an older dog first then a young dog.

neilo · Jan 18, 2023

I'm certainly no expert, but might I suggest that you can't really pick a pup up to train when it suits your calendar. They will all want starting at different ages, depending on the individual, and starting them too young is the quickest way of spoiling one.

I have a young 'un currently, almost 12 months old. I'm working hard on teaching her the basics.... by sending her off to someone that knows what they're doing and has the time & patience to do it. I can imagine it would be incredibly rewarding training them from nothing yourself, but I know my limitations.

Greythundercloudys · Jan 18, 2023

A black roof of mouth was supposed to be a sign of a smart dog.

andyt87 · Jan 18, 2023

Churchmount Sheepdogs is one of the ones I used to watch at the start. He takes a few risks with the dog & rams in pens for my liking, but he's far more experienced than me. I'll admit lockdown gave me plenty of time to train with zero social stuff. Might be the only good thing Drippy drakeford has done for me.
I had a brave dog by 7m, useful dog by 10m and he's still improving at 26m. If I'd picked a lemon though, it would still be a lemon, or gone.

You'll probably have some steady cull ewes floating around in late summer to train a dog on. Easier than flighty lambs at the start.

Personally I prefer a dog, don't think they get the hump with you quite so much. Think they're more loyal as well when they aren't chasing tail

ladycrofter · Jan 18, 2023

The pup should know you're its friend. It will certainly be yours. Never say NO, just "tsk" to correct. Plenty of "good boy/girl" even when the job's not quite right. Confidence is the key to learning. Set up training exercises so the dog can't fail. E.g. early on have it put sheep where they want to go anyway.

Failure is always the fault of the human, not the dog. Failure to anticipate, failure to see from the dog's eye level, failure to overestimate what the pup can figure out, failure to appreciate the limit of the pup's field of vision when driving sheep, failure to know when to stop and call it quits for the session, and also failure to determine what the training sheep will do and where they'll go. Plus plenty more.
Keep that in mind and the two of you will succeed.

som farmer · Jan 18, 2023

ladycrofter said:
The pup should know you're its friend. It will certainly be yours. Never say NO, just "tsk" to correct. Plenty of "good boy/girl" even when the job's not quite right. Confidence is the key to learning. Set up training exercises so the dog can't fail. E.g. early on have it put sheep where they want to go anyway.

Failure is always the fault of the human, not the dog. Failure to anticipate, failure to see from the dog's eye level, failure to overestimate what the pup can figure out, failure to appreciate the limit of the pup's field of vision when driving sheep, failure to know when to stop and call it quits for the session, and also failure to determine what the training sheep will do and where they'll go. Plus plenty more.
Keep that in mind and the two of you will succeed.

lost the plot if dog is frightened of you.
you need it, to look to you, to know what you want it to do.
if it's with you all the time, it will know before you say, it's 'tuned' into your mind.

Welderloon · Jan 18, 2023

I prefer dogs for no reason other than they seem a bit bolder from a younger age & more game in a battle of wills with a stubborn animal.............especially head down tail up cows

First sheepdog

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