£8 minimum Wage

[Woolgatherer]

Just over £13000 at the moment. Sorry to be going on about it but don't forget £8 / hour is a long way off.

 

[NH-James]

I do not agree with an £8 minimum wage. As mentioned by others, minimum wage should be minimum wage (for the lowest value jobs), not a living wage for someone to live on their own, run a car, have internet etc. People seem to set the benchmark too high, the reality should be that if you are doing a low value job, you will find it more difficult to afford things, probably not be able to afford to rent a house yourself (house share/live with parents/rented room) and not run a car which is a luxury (get a bike/walk). Many people find this controversial and argue that everyone deserves to be able to afford these things, I'm sorry but they don't! This country has a plenty of poor workers that do a poor job wherever they work, and even at 100% of their personal capability, are not worth anywhere near £8ph to an employer. I'm sure many on this forum don't realise how bone idle and/or incapable a lot of people are.

The majority of unskilled - partially skilled jobs are minimum wage and not much more. Do people not deserve to be rewarded for more challenging work? Can anyone tell me what the differential between the lowest paid, to partially skilled would have been 50 years ago? What I gather from speaking to older people, the difference between these jobs which are now all roughly minimum wage, could easily be 3/4 times.

Anyone who gets a job pushing grocery items across a scanner for £8ph should think themselves very lucky, as there's a machine that would be happy to do it for free after the initial investment and without wishing to offend anyone, it is a very easy job. There's my other point, £8ph minimum wage will only accelerate replacement of human labour in ALL industries.

We may as well use brain dead neanderthals for the jobs that suit such people, paying them £2/3 an hour, thus releasing a capable workforce for jobs with more worth.

The entire British workforce should be utilised to it's full individual capability, and rewarded fairly and proportionally for doing so, rather than everyone being guaranteed a low rate of pay, which is just about acceptable to survive on. The current rates of pay for jobs in this country massively dampens aspiration. Why do a challenging job requiring skill and knowledge, placing massive responsibility and demands on you, when you can effectively do bugger all, for the same wage?

 

[ST61]

39hr week x £8 = £312
52 weeks x £312 = £16224 = plenty to live on
Oh hold on, we forgot to deduct tax and national insurance
So what are we actually living on??????

 

[NZDan]

This could be viewed as being a bit of a nasty comment. I agree that it is the lowest possible wage but the bit about the very worst of employees is uncalled for. There are plenty of people who do this work for various reasons and most of the will be excellent workers. I'd like to suggest a few to you. Veg graders, unqualified nursing staff, cleaners, restaurant staff, care assistants in nursing homes. Do you really mean that these very hard working, reliable people who are doing essential work are the very worst employees? I agree that for some, these jobs are the first step on the ladder, but don't forget that these jobs have to be done by someone.

I didn't mean it as a nasty comment and perhaps worst employees was the wrong way to describe them, I realize that many minimum wage people are hard working, but the simple fact is some jobs simply don't aren't worth paying much for, this may be because the job has a low return on wages paid or because there are a large number of people willing to to the job.

 

[NZDan]

Ha, I said the same thing on a different forum, and was branded a "sick Nazi"!!!

But the Nazis as a sociallist party were very strong on having a minimum wage. lol

 

[NZDan]

Wages are shite because the unions have no power now. All the power is with the employers, hence executives can scoop a million per year.

You should try living here, all the power is with the employees, its nearly impossible to end someones employment, the only way to safe guard yourself as an employer is to keep wages low enough across all staff that you can afford the hopeless employees that your good employees carry, a sad state of affairs.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

You should try living here, all the power is with the employees, its nearly impossible to end someones employment, the only way to safe guard yourself as an employer is to keep wages low enough across all staff that you can afford the hopeless employees that your good employees carry, a sad state of affairs.

That may be true, but its still better than if we had a little as our leader

 

[NZDan]

That may be true, but its still better than if we had a little as our leader

Be even better if we had a Seymour as our leader

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Be even better if we had a Seymour as our leader

Ffs he's from Palmy If only he could get his act together

 

[NZDan]

Ffs he's from Palmy If only he could get his act together

It looks like the act is getting together, hopefully put some of the previous acting up in the past

 

[Athlete's Foot]

Every £ spent on a payrol is and should be carefully accounted for. Those industries who can pay people with no regard for their output, or who think that £8/hr is not a lot to pay are making big margins and that is fine, let them pay £8/hr, they can afford it, why not? Good for them. However, those industries where output per person, where output per £ spent, where margins are very tight and the chance of raising prices to cover extra costs are less than zero, well then for every £ extra spent something has to give, whether it is investment critical for the future, or rates of pay for people more able within that business it doesn't matter.
The minimum wage is a form of cartel, which is illegal in this country, though I somethimes wonder. Look on a business as your own home and the costs of running your own home, in reality the economics are similar. When you go buy your bread, milk, energy, clothes, or whatever, you have the choice of shopping anywhere, and paying whatever price you choose. No one says you must pay this if you want milk, only a free market dictates a price. And that is a fundamental right. The only thing that we do pay that we have no choice about is Tax, this is set by a cartel. How many people reading this are really, genuinely happy to pay Tax? The minimum wage is a tax on jobs, as if there aren't enough of those already.
One of the problems in this country, and it is a major problem, is that the word "profit" is a dirty word and is regarded by too many people as being unacceptable. Without profit we are all without a future, but the press, the BBC in particular, insist on slating those that make a profit, as if they are unclean. Wealth is earnt through innovation, hard work, determination, sacrifice, good luck and a fair wind. You don't CREATE wealth, as some writing on this forum would have you believe. Paying somebody a minimum for no measured work is ridiculous, in business terms, to the extreme. It is pure fantasy to believe that this will lead to a better standard of living. Let's look at the relatively short history of the Minimum Wage in this country. Introduced by Ooh please love me Tony Blait, well the less said about that lying, thieving .... the better, but introduced by him no less. Initially set at around the £3.50 mark, I can't remember quite the true figure. Well since its inception has anything changed for the better for those that are on it? Honestly? No. All we are asking for now is much bigger increases, why? Because inflation, true inflation not the one reported, but the one that really does drain the money from your pockets is rising exponentially. We MUST cut the crap out of the cost of living. We must become more productive, we must be rid of regulations that add no value, that only serve to protect jobs. The Public Sector is far too big, too many inspectors, too many pen pushers. Send them out to work, picking the litter up from our verges would be far more productive than the strangling, life sucking job that they currently do.
I could keep going on, but I have got to go to work. I have to go earlier and earlier now so that I can do all the jobs myself that someone on £5/hour should be doing, but can't because they are down the dole office.

 

[NZDan]

Every £ spent on a payrol is and should be carefully accounted for. Those industries who can pay people with no regard for their output, or who think that £8/hr is not a lot to pay are making big margins and that is fine, let them pay £8/hr, they can afford it, why not? Good for them. However, those industries where output per person, where output per £ spent, where margins are very tight and the chance of raising prices to cover extra costs are less than zero, well then for every £ extra spent something has to give, whether it is investment critical for the future, or rates of pay for people more able within that business it doesn't matter.
The minimum wage is a form of cartel, which is illegal in this country, though I somethimes wonder. Look on a business as your own home and the costs of running your own home, in reality the economics are similar. When you go buy your bread, milk, energy, clothes, or whatever, you have the choice of shopping anywhere, and paying whatever price you choose. No one says you must pay this if you want milk, only a free market dictates a price. And that is a fundamental right. The only thing that we do pay that we have no choice about is Tax, this is set by a cartel. How many people reading this are really, genuinely happy to pay Tax? The minimum wage is a tax on jobs, as if there aren't enough of those already.
One of the problems in this country, and it is a major problem, is that the word "profit" is a dirty word and is regarded by too many people as being unacceptable. Without profit we are all without a future, but the press, the BBC in particular, insist on slating those that make a profit, as if they are unclean. Wealth is earnt through innovation, hard work, determination, sacrifice, good luck and a fair wind. You don't CREATE wealth, as some writing on this forum would have you believe. Paying somebody a minimum for no measured work is ridiculous, in business terms, to the extreme. It is pure fantasy to believe that this will lead to a better standard of living. Let's look at the relatively short history of the Minimum Wage in this country. Introduced by Ooh please love me Tony Blait, well the less said about that lying, thieving .... the better, but introduced by him no less. Initially set at around the £3.50 mark, I can't remember quite the true figure. Well since its inception has anything changed for the better for those that are on it? Honestly? No. All we are asking for now is much bigger increases, why? Because inflation, true inflation not the one reported, but the one that really does drain the money from your pockets is rising exponentially. We MUST cut the crap out of the cost of living. We must become more productive, we must be rid of regulations that add no value, that only serve to protect jobs. The Public Sector is far too big, too many inspectors, too many pen pushers. Send them out to work, picking the litter up from our verges would be far more productive than the strangling, life sucking job that they currently do.
I could keep going on, but I have got to go to work. I have to go earlier and earlier now so that I can do all the jobs myself that someone on £5/hour should be doing, but can't because they are down the dole office.

Possibly the best post I have ever read!!!!

 

[Blod]

Any of you heard of Maslow' Hierarchy of Needs theory? Without the basic requirements of life, ie food, a home, feeling safe etc it is almost impossible to function. You are not yourself, more like a cornered rat. By paying an existence wage you should expect rats. BUT, make your staff a little bit more comfortable, show an interest and reward their efforts as individuals and most will shine. You might even find that you don't need so many because their productivity soars.

Yes, there is too much red tape and there are some people who just want to take a wage for minimum effort but let's not get the stifling effects of beurocracy muddled with the equally negative results of poor staff. If you want better staff, treat them well and weed out the freeloaders.

If you want less red tape? Well I suppose you could vote @Athlete's Foot for President.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

It looks like the act is getting together, hopefully put some of the previous acting up in the past

As long as they don't act too brash and have nothing to hide, they could have a future.......

 

[Athlete's Foot]

Any of you heard of Maslow' Hierarchy of Needs theory? Without the basic requirements of life, ie food, a home, feeling safe etc it is almost impossible to function. You are not yourself, more like a cornered rat. By paying an existence wage you should expect rats. BUT, make your staff a little bit more comfortable, show an interest and reward their efforts as individuals and most will shine. You might even find that you don't need so many because their productivity soars.

Yes, there is too much red tape and there are some people who just want to take a wage for minimum effort but let's not get the stifling effects of beurocracy muddled with the equally negative results of poor staff. If you want better staff, treat them well and weed out the freeloaders.

If you want less red tape? Well I suppose you could vote @Athlete's Foot for President.

The minimum wage Blod is a fertiliser for those "weeds" to which you refer. Rather than eradicating the weeds they are nurtured, encouraged to grow, they creep in from the headlands and fill our fields of productivity and nourish on the fertile land within, eventually leaving a barren wasteland through which the wind blows clouds of dust.

But I am inspired by your beliefs in the theory of Maslow, and so if I do attain the heady heights of President, you surely will be my Minister for Inspiration, for with rhetoric such as yours all of the centuries old employee/employer relations problems will be gone forever and our fields will once again be fertile. Step aboard my election bus and lets head for the sweat shops, the journey will be enlightening.

 

[Blod]

The minimum wage Blod is a fertiliser for those "weeds" to which you refer. Rather than eradicating the weeds they are nurtured, encouraged to grow, they creep in from the headlands and fill our fields of productivity and nourish on the fertile land within, eventually leaving a barren wasteland through which the wind blows clouds of dust.

But I am inspired by your beliefs in the theory of Maslow, and so if I do attain the heady heights of President, you surely will be my Minister for Inspiration, for with rhetoric such as yours all of the centuries old employee/employer relations problems will be gone forever and our fields will once again be fertile. Step aboard my election bus and lets head for the sweat shops, the journey will be enlightening.

Do you really think that most people on the minimum wage are like weeds sucking the life from industry? I could happily throttle you with my barbed tendrils and invasive roots. Anyone question your parentage recently?

 

[Athlete's Foot]

No I don't think most of them are. I actually think that most of them would be on more than the minimum wage, if it weren't for those that are on it who shouldn't be, those that that are taking the money from those that deserve it. It is those to which I refer, so please please hold back your uncontrollable, razor sharp, tendrils, save me from your Knot Weed roots, though the very thought fills my mind with visions of things not appropriate for this forum, good and clean that it is.

 

[Woolgatherer]

How many potato growers here think someone will stand and grade in a dark shed, cold, for 9 hours plus a day for less than £6.50? You have to be able to live on the pay you get or the job is not going to get done. I realise you could just sell it ungraded, what will your buyers pay you then? The supermarkets won't want rots on their shelves, the customers will soon avoid the veg shelves if there's an almighty stink. Pasta anyone? What I'm trying to say is that these jobs may be unskilled but they are still needing done. I wouldn't expect to be paid a higher wage to grade potatoes but some people seem to view the people who do them as being next to worthless. As I said in a previous post, these jobs are essential, someone still has to wipe your grannies bottom in the nursing home when she's not able to do it anymore. Is that person beneath your contempt because they're minimum wage? Or are you glad that they're there to do it, and bath her, feed her etc so you don't have to do it?

 

[llamedos]

As I said in a previous post, these jobs are essential, someone still has to wipe your grannies bottom in the nursing home when she's not able to do it anymore. Is that person beneath your contempt because they're minimum wage? Or are you glad that they're there to do it, and bath her, feed her etc so you don't have to do it?

Dont go there- you wont like what you read, we have been here before and quite a few deemed they were indeed beneath thier contempt, in fact worse than that, some decided that it was some kind of 'fault' that carers were in the job they were.

 

[Woolgatherer]

Dont go there- you wont like what you read, we have been here before and quite a few deemed they were indeed beneath thier contempt, in fact worse than that, some decided that it was some kind of 'fault' that carers were in the job they were.

Yes I remember. Their time will come - we all need looking after one day!