2 calves within 4 months...

[Clay52]

I like that one. Do enough research and have the knowledge to be able to pass yourself off as a vet but not actually be a vet and come to a farmers forum and give advise to whinging dairy farmers.

Do people actually think that's likely to happen.

 

[Henarar]

Because cow reproduction interests me. It's probably the part of my job I am best at. I enjoy the physiology and I like things out of the ordinary. If it can happen then I want to understand how, because it doesn't fit with the commonly held understanding of bovine reproductive physiology (for example the mare continues to ovulate during pregnancy).

What I don't like are people stating things as facts that are not true. Hence I want evidence and to know more. It's the scientist in me wanting to understand IF this happens then how and why it happens.

so why say its impossible ?

 

[RastaBoy]

There are 2 people on here who I think know my real identity, but I'm very keen to remain anonymous so I can speak my mind without people knowing who I am. I know a number of my clients use the site. I really couldn't give a stuff if you believe I am a vet or not.

So you like and need facts but offer none.
Not surprised you don't want people to know who you are. Although if both of your clients know who you are does it matter.
Oh and by the way I don't believe you are a Vet or that you possibly have as many as two clients !

 

[bovine]

so why say its impossible ?

Because I believe it is.

 

[Henarar]

never mind

 

[bar718]

Because I believe it is.

I can assure you it is possible having seen it happen although only once and it will of been over 30 years ago but it can happen .
Just wondering what that makes me having seen this and you saying it's impossible.

 

[RastaBoy]

I can assure you it is possible having seen it happen although only once and it will of been over 30 years ago but it can happen .
Just wondering what that makes me having seen this and you saying it's impossible.

I'd suggest he's calling you and other liars
I've never seen it but enough of you say you have for me to believe it.

 

[westwards]

I have a near neighbour who was Scottish Dairy Farmer of the year a few years ago and he told me it happen with one of his cows she did have 2 service dates 4 month apart and I think both times had heifer calves so @bovine pm me and I will give you his number if you doubt its possible, he is a very good farmer and I would say never get mixed up !!

 

[Moodle]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3677712/

Above is a link to a monitored case of superfetation.

 

[Clay52]

I have a near neighbour who was Scottish Dairy Farmer of the year a few years ago and he told me it happen with one of his cows she did have 2 service dates 4 month apart and I think both times had heifer calves so @bovine pm me and I will give you his number if you doubt its possible, he is a very good farmer and I would say never get mixed up !!

So if it actually happened that means he managed to breed a cow that was 4 months pregnant. So there goes that theory of him never getting mixed up.

Should have easily been able to tell she was pregnant and the dates that she had for breeding it would have been obvious he needed to preg check her before breeding her.

 

[RastaBoy]

So if it actually happened that means he managed to breed a cow that was 4 months pregnant. So there goes that theory of him never getting mixed up.

Should have easily been able to tell she was pregnant and the dates that she had for breeding it would have been obvious he needed to preg check her before breeding her.

Is it not possible he ran a bull with cows and didn't PD ?
Oh no he must either be incompetent or a liar !

 

[Princess Pooper]

And if we think about it.... are there many herds where a cow who calved 4 months ago is not in milk. No, she will either be going through the parlour, or if a suckler, probably a calf at foot (unless first calf was dead, in which case might have fostered on). So when said cow starts calving for the second time, farmer is likely to notice. Which surely makes it even less likely that these anecdotal incidences are not true.

And who can honestly say that they've never had a cow confirmed PD+ and then she has come bulling again and been served (possibly by the bull?) Not necessarily a case of bad record keeping at all, in most cases she has lost the embryo, but to say that if someone gets a cow served that is (apparently) 4 months pregnant is in some way at fault or incompetent is just ignorant.

 

[Clay52]

Is it not possible he ran a bull with cows and didn't PD ?
Oh no he must either be incompetent or a liar !

I'll give you the bull possibility for not preg checking. I don't have them in the herd so never think of that.

Never said he is incompetent or a liar. We all have stuff ups, especially when it can come to long hours and lots of cows calving in short spaces of time. Not sure why people are getting so offended at the likely event of an ID mix up happening on farm. We all know they happen.

 

[Moodle]

There is a link I posted earlier (waiting to be approved). A study following a case with two calves (one implanted, one natural sire) a 60 day difference- both reached term.

It is most likely extremely rare, and many would not reach full term if conceived, but it can and does happen.

 

[Kingofgrass]

First for me this afternoon,checked the silent herdsman before starting to getting the out the cubicles two cows with alerts on one being this cow,while getting the cows out one had calved in there,cow standing there with the cleansing hanging out of her,thought that's strange she only calved last month,any way wheel barrowed it out,went in the house to check the book! She had a Angus on the 5/2/17 and she's had a frb this afternoon! Records are right and everything defo the same cow in her second lact now,we run our Angus bull with the cows through the winter then take him out when we start on FR straws never seen this before frb very small probably have it shot,the Angus is still in calf pens,to be fair iv lost count of the twins iv had of two different breeds Caus we still serve the cow with bb 12hours later even if the bull has had her,still get 40% Bb calves even with the bull

 

[Clay52]

And if we think about it.... are there many herds where a cow who calved 4 months ago is not in milk. No, she will either be going through the parlour, or if a suckler, probably a calf at foot (unless first calf was dead, in which case might have fostered on). So when said cow starts calving for the second time, farmer is likely to notice. Which surely makes it even less likely that these anecdotal incidences are not true.

And who can honestly say that they've never had a cow confirmed PD+ and then she has come bulling again and been served (possibly by the bull?) Not necessarily a case of bad record keeping at all, in most cases she has lost the embryo, but to say that if someone gets a cow served that is (apparently) 4 months pregnant is in some way at fault or incompetent is just ignorant.

If you see the second calf coming out the back of her when she is supposedly 4 months in milk the likely thing is she is not actually 4 months in milk. There was some ID error.

We have all had 4 month pregenant cows come on heat. That's why you re preg check them before you serve. If you serve a cow that is 4 months pregnant that is an error on your part. No way around that.

Bull yeah maybe but now we are adding another requirement for this work.

 

[willie waver]

reminds me of the time(s) I've gone out to the dry field to check, spot cow with new calf at its feet sucking and just run them in the byre, then go back out to check the others, spot cow in corner of field that has clearly calved but cant find the calf, then spend the next hour tramping round the bloody field and hedges looking for its calf before giving up and bringing the cow in itself. check the first cow, oh..................

 

[Clay52]

I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible and could never ever happen. These freaks of nature events that shouldn't happen do sometime manage to sneak through. Then you have to add dairy cows under high stress of milk production which can lower the levels of the reproductive hormones.

But I in no way believe all of these anecdotes. I see every day how bad vets, dairy farmers and dairy employees are with data entry and remembering cattle IDs. This cause is much more likely to happen.

 

[RastaBoy]

I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible and could never ever happen. These freaks of nature events that shouldn't happen do sometime manage to sneak through. Then you have to add dairy cows under high stress of milk production which can lower the levels of the reproductive hormones.

But I in no way believe all of these anecdotes. I see every day how bad vets, dairy farmers and dairy employees are with data entry and remembering cattle IDs. This cause is much more likely to happen.

May I ask how you see this "every day" ?

I've never seen any of my Vets make a mistake with a cow number in over 40 years dairy farming.
I had an employee who wasn't competent doing paperwork so he didn't do it. I have made a mistake with the odd number myself yes but it is immediately flagged up by the computer systems.
There's a lot of things which surprise me and which I haven't seen happen with my own eyes. Doesn't mean I don't believe those who have seen and had it happen.

 

[Clay52]

May I ask how you see this "every day" ?

I've never seen any of my Vets make a mistake with a cow number in over 40 years dairy farming.
I had an employee who wasn't competent doing paperwork so he didn't do it. I have made a mistake with the odd number myself yes but it is immediately flagged up by the computer systems.
There's a lot of things which surprise me and which I haven't seen happen with my own eyes. Doesn't mean I don't believe those who have seen and had it happen.

well not exactly every day. You caught me on a technicality but I'm sure you know what I mean.

Im amazed at the number of cows dead years ago that dad or employees manage to see on heat. Does that mean I should believe that the ghost of a cow is actually running around in the paddock on heat or is it more likely that there has been a cow ID error.