2 calves within 4 months...

[RastaBoy]

well not exactly every day. You caught me on a technicality but I'm sure you know what I mean.

Im amazed at the number of cows dead years ago that dad or employees manage to see on heat. Does that mean I should believe that the ghost of a cow is actually running around in the paddock on heat or is it more likely that there has been a cow ID error.

I'd suggest you work out who's good at what and get the ones who are good at numbers to check the ones who are not. If you are running your operation like that it must be difficult to work out if it's a ghost or the right cow and you've notified Cts that the wrong cow has died.
Regarding the technicality , when questioning the competence or truthfulness of others I'd be very careful not to exagerate to press home your point.
Some call it a technicality others call it an outright lie.

 

[Hotspur]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3677712/

Above is a link to a monitored case of superfetation.

The calves didn't reach full term in this article and both were born the same day.

 

[Clay52]

The calves didn't reach full term in this article and both were born the same day.

That what I was thinking. If this actually happens i struggle to see that when the first one comes out I can't see how the second one could possibly continue on.

 

[westwards]

I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible and could never ever happen. These freaks of nature events that shouldn't happen do sometime manage to sneak through. Then you have to add dairy cows under high stress of milk production which can lower the levels of the reproductive hormones.

But I in no way believe all of these anecdotes. I see every day how bad vets, dairy farmers and dairy employees are with data entry and remembering cattle IDs. This cause is much more likely to happen.

Ok @Clay52 if you and @bovine are so bloody sure that you are right why don't you PM me and I will give you the farmers name and phone number , I don't like being called a liar and sure as hell believe the farmers account of what happened.

 

[Clay52]

Ok @Clay52 if you and @bovine are so bloody sure that you are right why don't you PM me and I will give you the farmers name and phone number , I don't like being called a liar and sure as hell believe the farmers account of what happened.

I don't like people accusing me of calling them a liar when I did nothing of so sort. I didn't see bovine call anyone a liar either. Where are you getting liar from?

I suggested misidentification as the most likely explanation. Which it is.

It's like my example of getting given cow IDs by employees for cows on heat that have died years ago. Now am I to believe that dead cow has risen from the dead and now riding other cows around the paddock or they simply got the number wrong.

Just today one of the employees said cow 53?? (Couldn't see the whole number but said it for sure started with 53) was kicking at her belly, seemed like she had an upset gut. They pointed her out to me. I go have a look and it's number 5191.

It happens, ID stuff ups happen more often than most of us want to admit to.

 

[bovine]

I think you misunderstand what I require as 'evidence'. I want a damn sight more than one person's anecdote.

 

[Clay52]

I think you misunderstand what I require as 'evidence'. I want a damn sight more than one person's anecdote.

Anecdotes are not evidence.

3rd or 4th hand stories are even more unreliable.

 

[westwards]

You pair just don't want proved wrong !! I will give you his vets number as he knows the story, and he is a dairy farmer as well. There was no staff just a farmer and his 2 sons, some folk do know their cows and work with them all the time, he did not get Scottish Dairy Farmer of the year for being a LIAR !!! He is a perfectionist and you 2 are WRONG.

 

[Clay52]

You pair just don't want proved wrong !! I will give you his vets number as he knows the story, and he is a dairy farmer as well. There was no staff just a farmer and his 2 sons, some folk do know their cows and work with them all the time, he did not get Scottish Dairy Farmer of the year for being a LIAR !!! He is a perfectionist and you 2 are WRONG.

Post up a quote where bovine or I called anyone a liar or even suggested it otherwise stop with the liar accusations. You are being unreasonable.

I'm sure if you ask the farmer of the year if he has ever been wrong or remebered the the number of a cow wrong and he will say yes.

There hasn't been proof of anything apart from your unreasonable aggressiveness and false accusations on this topic.

 

[RastaBoy]

Post up a quote where bovine or I called anyone a liar or even suggested it otherwise stop with the liar accusations. You are being unreasonable.

I'm sure if you ask the farmer of the year if he has ever been wrong or remebered the the number of a cow wrong and he will say yes.

There hasn't been proof of anything apart from your unreasonable aggressiveness and false accusations on this topic.

Both yourself and @bovine have repeatedly made posts that insinuate either incompetence or people telling lies. It's just you don't have the courage of your convictions or the balls to outright call people liars. You are obviously working with incompetent people and earlier in the thread @bovine admitted he was telling lies. I would suggest both he and you are judging people are all the same as you and your staff. I'm not surprised @westwards is offended he has offered you both a farmer and vets number who can verify This happened. If you're not going to take him up on it I suggest you apologise and sh!t up.

 

[Clay52]

Both yourself and @bovine have repeatedly made posts that insinuate either incompetence or people telling lies. It's just you don't have the courage of your convictions or the balls to outright call people liars. You are obviously working with incompetent people and earlier in the thread @bovine admitted he was telling lies. I would suggest both he and you are judging people are all the same as you and your staff. I'm not surprised @westwards is offended he has offered you both a farmer and vets number who can verify This happened. If you're not going to take him up on it I suggest you apologise and sh!t up.

Please quote where i suggested anyone was telling lies or was incompetent, otherwise get out of it and take your bull crap accusations with you.

People make mistakes. It happens, fact of life. That doesn't mean someone is lying or incompetent. Getting the wrong ID on a cow is pretty easy.

The US ag department from genomic testing estimates something like 30% error rates in calf parentage from ID errors. Again it happens.

 

[Henarar]

Bovine said it was impossible then said he was interested in it
A bit of a waste of time to be interested in something that can't happen

 

[Henarar]

I think you misunderstand what I require as 'evidence'. I want a damn sight more than one person's anecdote.

would you say that to a customer ?

 

[Clay52]

I've just said all along I'm putting my money on the more likely answer of ID error. I never said anyone is lying and I don't appreciate the accusations from people that seem to read what they want in these posts rather than what was actually posted.

 

[Henarar]

I've just said all along I'm putting my money on the more likely answer of ID error. I never said anyone is lying and I don't appreciate the accusations from people that seem to read what they want in these posts rather than what was actually posted.

if that was in response to me I never said you made any accusations of folk lying

 

[RastaBoy]

if that was in response to me I never said you made any accusations of folk lying

I did though. Pity he didn't have the balls to stand behind it better still apologise.

 

[bovine]

Both yourself and @bovine have repeatedly made posts that insinuate either incompetence or people telling lies. It's just you don't have the courage of your convictions or the balls to outright call people liars. You are obviously working with incompetent people and earlier in the thread @bovine admitted he was telling lies. I would suggest both he and you are judging people are all the same as you and your staff. I'm not surprised @westwards is offended he has offered you both a farmer and vets number who can verify This happened. If you're not going to take him up on it I suggest you apologise and sh!t up.

Stop being a child and throwing your toys out of the pram. No one is calling anyone a liar. In terms of the physiology of reproduction this should be impossible. To convince me it isn't I need evidence from a number of sources corroborating cases where this has happened and been independently verified by a 3rd party. The only 'evidence' presented is 1 abstract that is too old for me to find the full paper with 2 calves seemingly different sizes.

People are convinced that homeopathy works because they used it and thing got better ("I saw it with my own eyes"). Many people are convinced you can cure ringworm with holly (you can't). I don't believe the people who have stories of these are deliberately misleading me and lying, but I do believe without decent evidence they are wrong or mistaken, in the same way the person is believing shaken water can cure anything or holly has remote healing powers.

Bovine said it was impossible then said he was interested in it
A bit of a waste of time to be interested in something that can't happen

I'm interested in the anecdotes and looking at any decent evidence I may be wrong in my believe that this is impossible. Give me some good evidence and I will change my mind. That's how science works in a nutshell.

would you say that to a customer ?

Yes, and have done on lots of occasions.

 

[Recoil]

Well, what started as an interesting thread had quickly turned to sh!t...again!

 

[RastaBoy]

@bovine "stop being a child" priceless. You have questioned people's honesty and competence. Now you backtrack because you don't have the balls to stand by it.
The more you post the more I think you are a fake and a liar ! If you were a decent Vet you wouldn't have the time to be on here. If you are in fact a Vet you should be disciplined. It is unethical to be on here giving advice with no first hand knowledge not knowing the facts.
If indeed you are a Vet I'm not surprised you remain anonymous. I don't believe you speak to customer the way you claim. It strikes me you are living out a fantasy of being someone important. If I had a Vet like the one you portray he'd be on his ass then banned from the farm.
Interesting you called me a "child". Hadn't thought about of it before but if I had to guess you are about 12. A loner with no friends and a book on Vet medicine written in about 1943.
Seems you and @Clay52 judge people by your own standards. I'm willing to believe the accounts offered in this thread. I see nothing for people to gain from making it up and I don't think people who can't ID a cow would still be in this very difficult industry. Then again I'm neither incompetent or a liar so don't expect others to be.

 

[Henarar]

I'm interested in the anecdotes and looking at any decent evidence I may be wrong in my believe that this is impossible

That's better