A question for Brexit hating Guardian readers or any other Remainers

[Hindsight]

Just showing his true colours

My reaction is same as yours. But old dog will be in clover if he Is proved right. So I watch with great interest. Anyway hope the poor folk survive and get well.

 

[rob1]

My reaction is same as yours. But old dog will be in clover if he Is proved right. So I watch with great interest. Anyway hope the poor folk survive and get well.

I doubt we will ever know the truth, I expect all sides do similar things to this,much easier ways of killing off someone you dont like without making it so obvious, if it is putin he is sending a message to others

 

[caveman]

Wouldn't put it past a few leprechaun agents carrying out a dastardly Junker plan to frighten us into staying in the EU to fight the big, bad bear in the east.

 

[wanton dwarf]

My reaction is same as yours. But old dog will be in clover if he Is proved right. So I watch with great interest. Anyway hope the poor folk survive and get well.

At the moment I am personally undecided. Jeremy has shown guts to stand firm in the face of the current pantomime.

Very mindful that all Western states have been looking for any opportunity to have a go at Russia.

If someone wanted to trigger an incident between the West & Russia and a very small amount of chemical creates this kind of reaction ? very cheap and obviously very easy to trigger.

Far too many people are far too easily led IMHO. The money exchanged between Russians & the Conservatives, known Russian spies in the UK, Oligarchs trading in property .. was all OK a few weeks ago, now not OK .. hmm.

But if this leads to Mrs May actually finding her backbone in the Brexit negotiations then I'll personally cut her some slack.

 

[caveman]

Just heard it announced that the Aussie PM is in thorough agreement with Maybe that it was Putin wot dun it.
WTF
Is Europe full of Aussie agents with the knowledge?

 

[wanton dwarf]

I doubt we will ever know the truth, I expect all sides do similar things to this,much easier ways of killing off someone you dont like without making it so obvious, if it is putin he is sending a message to others

Why would Putin not kill someone using a chemical that is linked to Russia ?

Worse the chap was imprisoned in Russia for 13 years & not harmed. This has been done to harm relations with Russia on purpose.

BTW local MP was mentioning Russia before this incident and getting fracking going .. not saying this is specifcally linked but it's certainly going to oil the wheels.

 

[Muck Spreader]

My reaction is same as yours. But old dog will be in clover if he Is proved right. So I watch with great interest. Anyway hope the poor folk survive and get well.

The Kremlin is implicated in one way or another. Even if it's a criminal act sponsored by the state or not, the nerve agent used was under their jurisdiction and probably illegally held by them at the chemical weapons site at Shikhany. So they have plenty of explaining to do.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Is this the way you conduct your business? Constantly striving to sell more? I have always found it easier to reduce costs than to increase ncome. There is a limit, of course, and occasionally it is necessary to just accept a lower level of disposable money. That might happen to the UK population after Brexit, but nobody knows.

IMO there are only 3 economies in the world that are large enough and could probably survive and prosper based mostly on their internal markets. The US, EU and China, all three would however have to under take some pretty fundamental changes. Every other first world country needs to export and import in order to grow or at last remain stable. Just look at what endless austerity in doing to the infrastructure of UK in an effort to balance the these books rather than developing trade and therefore revenue for the government.. Cost cutting can only end up ultimately as a pay as you use system of government.

 

[rob1]

Why would Putin not kill someone using a chemical that is linked to Russia ?

Worse the chap was imprisoned in Russia for 13 years & not harmed. This has been done to harm relations with Russia on purpose.

BTW local MP was mentioning Russia before this incident and getting fracking going .. not saying this is specifcally linked but it's certainly going to oil the wheels.

That is the big question and I doubt us mere plebs will ever know

 

[little_p]

I live in a rural area increasingly populated by metropolitan (usually London) escapees. They are typically Guardian reading lefties who are generally fun, interesting, intelligent, generous and open minded... until they ask you about Brexit. Their surprise at my positive reply produces a spectrum of responses, from ‘the polite’ - a sage like nod of the head and a quick change of subject to the ‘full monty’ look of disgust at the obviously ignorant, homophobic, racist and misogynistic yokel in front of them. I’ve even got friends who won’t admit to voting leave in front of them for fear of becoming a social outcast..

I’ve become convinced more and more that there is going to be a ‘revenge of the remainers’.

A second referendum is dead and buried and I think that a MP vote is highly unlikely (can you imagine an MP like Chris Davies putting his dick on the line over something as emotive as this) and we leave the EU in 12 months time. This is going to result in some ‘adjustments’ in the economy. This is going to be anything from slightly poorer standards of living to wholesale job losses like we have never seen before.

Now the UK it is always somebody’s fault. And this time it is going to be the political right that is going to cop the blame big time. Cue a general election and a Corbyn landslide. Now the Guardian readers have got a taste for blood and they are determined to take it out on the very people that got us in the mess to be begin with. What? The poorly educated? No, they’re our own. Who then? Those country yokels that voted Brexit.

Hang on a minute don’t those same farmers receive millions pounds of subsidy a year? Yes. f**k em, that’s the first thing that we’ll cut. Isn’t the inheritance tax on working farms quite generous? Yeah, stick that up as well. Watch em squeal from their Hi-Lux’s.

But won’t that mean that push farmers into bankruptcy? Yes, but it’s means that I will be able to sell my studio flat in Clapham and buy a nice farm on the black hill. Every cloud and all that.....

And all because you don’t like having a few Polski workers in a chicken factory (which is mainly supplied by Radnorshire / Herefordshire farmers).

PS: Not a slight on you (who you seem from your posts are open minded and willing to listen to other points of view), just want to provide an alternative scenario to Brexit.

 

[RobFZS]

I’ve become convinced more and more that there is going to be a ‘revenge of the remainers’.

A second referendum is dead and buried and I think that a MP vote is highly unlikely (can you imagine an MP like Chris Davies putting his dick on the line over something as emotive as this) and we leave the EU in 12 months time. This is going to result in some ‘adjustments’ in the economy. This is going to be anything from slightly poorer standards of living to wholesale job losses like we have never seen before.

Now the UK it is always somebody’s fault. And this time it is going to be the political right that is going to cop the blame big time. Cue a general election and a Corbyn landslide. Now the Guardian readers have got a taste for blood and they are determined to take it out on the very people that got us in the mess to be begin with. What? The poorly educated? No, they’re our own. Who then? Those country yokels that voted Brexit.

Hang on a minute don’t those same farmers receive millions pounds of subsidy a year? Yes. fudge em, that’s the first thing that we’ll cut. Isn’t the inheritance tax on working farms quite generous? Yeah, stick that up as well. Watch em squeal from their Hi-Lux’s.

But won’t that mean that push farmers into bankruptcy? Yes, but it’s means that I will be able to sell my studio flat in Clapham and buy a nice farm on the black hill. Every cloud and all that.....

And all because you don’t like having a few Polski workers in a chicken factory (which is mainly supplied by Radnorshire / Herefordshire farmers).

PS: Not a slight on you (who you seem from your posts are open minded and willing to listen to other points of view), just want to provide an alternative scenario to Brexit.

It'll be the Eu that's to blame, as it has been for the last 40 years

Your other analyse about farmers getting stuffed is the bare basics i hear from common plebs, most people with a brain understand why we have subs when they pay very little for their food in the supermarket, the problem here is, farmers talk to other farmers and create bogey men, engage with the public more and you'll understand it from another point of view.

The revenge of the remainers wont ever happen, they've got nothing to remain in, you cant sell reform in the EU while saying we cant cherry pick, we go one way or the other, there is no middle.

The 'adjustments' in the economy wont be noticed , here's what you could have won news reports mean very little, the sort of public spending some people want cant ever be covered by normal taxation anyway, hence them voting for Corbyn, so it's just more money on the tab, maybe abit extra, but we're in a couple trillion of debt now so what the hey.

Also, the Guardian has very few readers, the losses it makes every year proves this, they're a sadistic bunch that wont be pleased until we're all living back in huts.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I’ve become convinced more and more that there is going to be a ‘revenge of the remainers’.

We've been living in the revenge of the Remainers for the past 20 years.

But I personally think a lot of the Remainers are infact those who don't want to risk change. It's very obvious a large number of Leavers think the system is so bad they'll risk to change.

The Guardian set are quite frankly liars. Monbiot, who currently has prostate cancer, didn't even bother checking the "facts" he used .. he just used whatever someone else wrote to his political ends which has always been the destruction to the Rural Tory Agricultural vote.

 

[Muck Spreader]

We've been living in the revenge of the Remainers for the past 20 years.

But I personally think a lot of the Remainers are infact those who don't want to risk change. It's very obvious a large number of Leavers think the system is so bad they'll risk to change.

The Guardian set are quite frankly liars. Monbiot, who currently has prostate cancer, didn't even bother checking the "facts" he used .. he just used whatever someone else wrote to his political ends which has always been the destruction to the Rural Tory Agricultural vote.

Are you saying the fact he has prostate cancer is affecting his mental ability

 

[rob1]

Are you saying the fact he has prostate cancer is affecting his mental ability

I think perhaps he was saying he has other things on his mind other than doing proper research,not that he ever seems to do that as he has an agenda to follow

 

[wanton dwarf]

Are you saying the fact he has prostate cancer is affecting his mental ability

Monbiot has been a well paid "Journalist" for a long time before proclaiming he has cancer.

I'm saying he has put his mental abilities into a specifc agenda, he knows very well he should have researched the white papers he used to make his articles, but he didn't and could always claim it was someone else guv.

IMHO this is a deliberate tactic throughout the mainstream media and unfortunately our own government.

 

[ollie989898]

I voted for BREXIT knowing full well it will mean accelerated globalisation. The UK can onlt prosper by spreading its wings and looking to trade in the real world. We are great innovators and are viewed as a safe and stable country, where individual freedoms and proprerty rights are respected. We also have a very benign government and an economy large enough to stick a global downturn.

Global and free trade is the only way forward. Not a bastion of protectionism designed to protect retarded industries at the expense of the entire economies of other countries.

The PIGS in Europe will suffer another 20 years if they remain in the EU and it will result in civil war eventually.

 

[arcobob]

I voted for BREXIT knowing full well it will mean accelerated globalisation. The UK can onlt prosper by spreading its wings and looking to trade in the real world. We are great innovators and are viewed as a safe and stable country, where individual freedoms and proprerty rights are respected. We also have a very benign government and an economy large enough to stick a global downturn.

Global and free trade is the only way forward. Not a bastion of protectionism designed to protect retarded industries at the expense of the entire economies of other countries.

The PIGS in Europe will suffer another 20 years if they remain in the EU and it will result in civil war eventually.

100% agree.

 

[Old McDonald]

IMO there are only 3 economies in the world that are large enough and could probably survive and prosper based mostly on their internal markets. The US, EU and China, all three would however have to under take some pretty fundamental changes. Every other first world country needs to export and import in order to grow or at last remain stable. Just look at what endless austerity in doing to the infrastructure of UK in an effort to balance the these books rather than developing trade and therefore revenue for the government.. Cost cutting can only end up ultimately as a pay as you use system of government.

That neatly sidesteps my question to you. I also said there is a limit to cost cutting. I never suggested it was the only course of action to take, but a reduction in what I consider at a personal level to be "beer money" is often the best way to survive and then prosper again at a later date.

Quote: Just look at what endless austerity in doing to the infrastructure of UK in an effort to balance the these books rather than developing trade and therefore revenue for the government..

Forgive my ignorance, but I have not lived in the UK for a few years, only visited, and do not follow your line of argument. On my visits I have not seen any great problems with UK infrastructure, please enlighten me.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I voted for BREXIT knowing full well it will mean accelerated globalisation. The UK can onlt prosper by spreading its wings and looking to trade in the real world. We are great innovators and are viewed as a safe and stable country, where individual freedoms and proprerty rights are respected. We also have a very benign government and an economy large enough to stick a global downturn.

Global and free trade is the only way forward. Not a bastion of protectionism designed to protect retarded industries at the expense of the entire economies of other countries.

The PIGS in Europe will suffer another 20 years if they remain in the EU and it will result in civil war eventually.

I don't mind the trade as long as our own government doesn't stack circumstances against the UK.

I won't hold my breath because IMHO they've only been too willing to ensure UK business fails, failed UK businesses can be sold off and imports are a guaranteed oneway income - those that want to buy will have to pay imported prices.

Personally I think you're putting free trade on a pedestal and ignoring tax & regulation.

 

[little_p]

The Guardian set are quite frankly liars. Monbiot, who currently has prostate cancer, didn't even bother checking the "facts" he used .. he just used whatever someone else wrote to his political ends which has always been the destruction to the Rural Tory Agricultural vote.

And let's face it, the leave campaign was based on a fully fleshed out, fact based campaign! Anyway, I'm not interesting in points scoring on things like that. In seems that we are currently living in an age where true information doesn't hold much value.

Unlike @RobFZS I don't think that we are going to leave the EU without 'adjustments' in our economy and if there is I don't think that the political left will be willing to put it on the tab when there are 'wealthy' farmers and landowners that can be heavily taxed and subsidies cut.

So that is my prediction; if we leave the EU, it will be followed by a lerch to the political left who will be looking to take it out on the leave votes and their political enemies (rural tories).

@RobFZS you say that even plebs understand that farm subsidies = lower farm prices, but how exactly do you think that we are going to make free trade agreements with countries that have little farm subsidies in place, without cuts in our food production linked farm subsidies becoming a bargain chip? You seem to have a good understanding of potential post-Brexit economies (hence your claim that there won't be any adjustments in the economy). Genuinely interested, how you see us having a trade agreement with the USA, Canada, Australia etc, etc without production based farm subsidies being changed (reduced or removed).