AB15 2 year legume fallow

[B'o'B]

Admit I have not fully read this thread, but can the Forum confirm that this option can be destroyed on 15th August(in the correct year) and immediately resown DD with the same option(obviously after mowing & baling the crop post 15th August?? ie it does not HAVE TO be resited, as the term re-establish is used.

I know that they don’t like you to do it, but I’m not sure that they are very confident that the rules are written in a way that actually allows them to enforce it To be rotational, if push came to shove.
But I wouldn’t want to try it on a big area. It really wouldn’t be any fun being the test case even if you did win in the end.

 

[teslacoils]

Aha, this depends. My mid tier ab15 must be rotated. My daddy's "mixed farming offer" ab15 can be located in the same fields ie sprayed off 15aug and redrilled 15 sept on the same land. Mine also has to be established by 1st September. As usual, devils in the detail.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Might AB1 be a better option. Don't think there's anything to stop you putting plenty of clovers in the seed mix, and I think it can be left in one place for the 5 years. That said, it does say that it is a rotational option

Only downside I can think of is the requirement to leave in place until 31st december of year 5. So not easy to get a 1st wheat in at end of agreement.

 

[Hindsight]

Might AB1 be a better option. Don't think there's anything to stop you putting plenty of clovers in the seed mix, and I think it can be left in one place for the 5 years. That said, it does say that it is a rotational option

Only downside I can think of is the requirement to leave in place until 31st december of year 5. So not easy to get a 1st wheat in at end of agreement.

AB1 can be rotational or left in same place for five years of agreement. That is my take.

 

[yellow belly]

if you want to keep it longer than 2 years ab1 would be a better safer option
not worth bending the rules as if they find against you the fines can be based on the combined payments for the 5 years

ab 15 would be an option i used to get a 2 year break then plant 2 years wheat
if i wanted to not crop a field then ab1 would be better

 

[Hindsight]

Admit I have not fully read this thread, but can the Forum confirm that this option can be destroyed on 15th August(in the correct year) and immediately resown DD with the same option(obviously after mowing & baling the crop post 15th August?? ie it does not HAVE TO be resited, as the term re-establish is used.

As I understand it AB15 was not designed to be left in same place after two years. I put together three Mid Tier applications in the early years (2017/2018) and used AB15 in awkward field corners to replace the previous EF1 under ELS with intention of leaving AB15 in same place.

At time NE advice I received was mixed. But the management prescription is clearly designed for rotational use.

Recently I asked NE for guidance again as concerned. The reply (verbal not written) I received was that NE are aware how AB15 has and is being used but it is not the spirit of the option. I am currently putting together an application and using AB1 or AB8 where intend to leave in same place.

 

[Breckland Boy]

Thread hijack,
I keep looking at a ab15 type scheme that would fit into our rotation.
We grow potatoes, beet and onions in a 6 year rotation with cereal break crops.
I would like to find an option that would allow me to run a rotation of pots, ab15(2yrs), onions and back to ab15 for 2 years. There by dropping beet and cereals.
The main issue with ab15 is it isn't allowed in SSSI areas which we are.
Does anyone have a suggestion that would follow the revised rotation whilst building fertility and om, and also have an environmental benefit?

 

[Hindsight]

Thread hijack,
I keep looking at a ab15 type scheme that would fit into our rotation.
We grow potatoes, beet and onions in a 6 year rotation with cereal break crops.
I would like to find an option that would allow me to run a rotation of pots, ab15(2yrs), onions and back to ab15 for 2 years. There by dropping beet and cereals.
The main issue with ab15 is it isn't allowed in SSSI areas which we are.
Does anyone have a suggestion that would follow the revised rotation whilst building fertility and om, and also have an environmental benefit?

First clarify with Natural England 'isn't allowed in SSSI area'. Does this mean not allowed on SSSI sites / land parcels but allowed other parcels on a SBI not subject to an SSSI. Next could you meet the sowing/establishment dates as you seem to want to follow potatoes and onions with AB15 - both of those I would have thought are harvested after the 7 september establishment date. Just idle thoughts from a bloke on the internet who you may find is a Russian bot. As ever ask a true expert. Maybe Natural England technical staff - they do not bite!

 

[Chalky]

I use a very helpful husband and wife couple for advice re. stewardship etc, I asked her a few weeks ago and she repeated some of the above but wording RPA used(poorly thought out then) did not preclude it from being replaced on time in situ. They(RPA) said 'not in spirit', but they could not enforce it if that is what a grower did.
Frontier rep was black and white replace where it was put.

 

[Chalky]

Remember linseed being 'grown' for the sub, then being mowed & baled off? Certainly not uncommon in the North 20 years or so ago. Not in the spirit?? Well word you rules better then!

 

[DRC]

Worth remembering that some older agreements have different rules than new ones . Certainly with mixes .

 

[teslacoils]

I use a very helpful husband and wife couple for advice re. stewardship etc, I asked her a few weeks ago and she repeated some of the above but wording RPA used(poorly thought out then) did not preclude it from being replaced on time in situ. They(RPA) said 'not in spirit', but they could not enforce it if that is what a grower did.
Frontier rep was black and white replace where it was put.

We possibly use the same advisor.

The view has always been with these schemes is what they don't explicitly prohibit, they allow.

 

[jon9000]

After much thought thinking of going with eows just to keep it simple and I get more first wheats and grow less osr.... or better still no osr!

 

[teslacoils]

It's looking lovely today. Just walked it to get a couple of late thistles out. Now I smell like a florists. Bees, butterflies, lacewings, all sorts in it. Going to soil test it to see what's changed.

 

[haggard143]

It's looking lovely today. Just walked it to get a couple of late thistles out. Now I smell like a florists. Bees, butterflies, lacewings, all sorts in it. Going to soil test it to see what's changed.

Would like to see pics please very interested in any stewardship as hope to be going in dec.

 

[teslacoils]

This is it in year two. Note that new schemes have a different, grass free mix which will be better. It's about 1m high now and will be mown.

Second pic is seedbed for next year's sowing. Soils being tested tomorrow - will be interesting if they are "better" after two years stewardship.

 

[DRC]

This is it in year two. Note that new schemes have a different, grass free mix which will be better. It's about 1m high now and will be mown.

Second pic is seedbed for next year's sowing. Soils being tested tomorrow - will be interesting if they are "better" after two years stewardship.

Are you able to make silage/ haylage from a certain date in the 2nd year

 

[Hindsight]

Are you able to make silage/ haylage from a certain date in the 2nd year

August 15 in second year if I recall land returns to arable production. There are no restrictions on how one might utilise the clover/grass. So presumably Teslacoils is going to cut and bale. Be interesting to find if he is making dry hay or wrapping. Or something else.

 

[teslacoils]

Are you able to make silage/ haylage from a certain date in the 2nd year

Yup. 15 aug.

After last autumn being such a cock I'm not mucking about. I was going to disc it in. But local dairy want it. They will bale it and wrap. But a mere hint of bad weather and ill flail it and plough it in. Anyone who makes hay in the UK is just a glutton for punishment if there's an outlet for wrapped forage.

 

[teslacoils]

Next year's going in. Bit early but hoping to catch the wet and heat.