Anyone using a 2 year IRG, clover, vetch silage ley?

[Winklepicker]

Looking to reduce bought in protein for dairy herd and try and improve the soil on arable rotation too.
So I’m thinking of growing 2 year silage leys in the arable rotation. I like the look of a mixture done by Cotswold Seeds call Fast and Vast, anyone had any experiences with it or similar mixtures.
Do vetches produce decent silage?

Fast & Vast High Clover One - Two Year Ley

www.cotswoldseeds.com

 

[dinderleat]

I’ve just put a 1year Italian and some red clover in probably cost to much but fits well in the rotation with maize and wheat

 

[Jdunn55]

Looking to reduce bought in protein for dairy herd and try and improve the soil on arable rotation too.
So I’m thinking of growing 2 year silage leys in the arable rotation. I like the look of a mixture done by Cotswold Seeds call Fast and Vast, anyone had any experiences with it or similar mixtures.
Do vetches produce decent silage?

Fast & Vast High Clover One - Two Year Ley

www.cotswoldseeds.com

In my experience the vetch will last for one cut, maybe two and then bugger off so would be better pulling it out and putting more clover in imo.

If cutting ONLY put lots of RED clover in!! 30% as a minimum for me.
Next thing I would advise is scrap italian ryegrass and put hybrid ryegrass in instead. The clover makes the seed mix expensive and red will happily do 3 years if not more therefore to get your moneys worth put hybrid ryegrass in which will also do 3-4 years (same as the red clover).

Remember though, although red clover is expensive and adding more to a mix will increase the price/acre, the fertiliser you save will more than outweigh this, AND your bought in protein requirement will be lower.

Just my two pence

 

[Derrick Hughes]

We did a lot of Hybrid / Red Clover mixes this summer and agree with the above

 

[milkloss]

I will agree also. I admit that we don't have a lot of experience but I found that some red clovers are far more persistent than others so ask around for practical advice.

 

[dinderleat]

1 year fits our rotation Italian grass is cheap seed

 

[Winklepicker]

In my experience the vetch will last for one cut, maybe two and then bugger off so would be better pulling it out and putting more clover in imo.

If cutting ONLY put lots of RED clover in!! 30% as a minimum for me.
Next thing I would advise is scrap italian ryegrass and put hybrid ryegrass in instead. The clover makes the seed mix expensive and red will happily do 3 years if not more therefore to get your moneys worth put hybrid ryegrass in which will also do 3-4 years (same as the red clover).

Remember though, although red clover is expensive and adding more to a mix will increase the price/acre, the fertiliser you save will more than outweigh this, AND your bought in protein requirement will be lower.

Just my two pence

Ideally I’d like it to be a 2 year ley as it fits into the rotation perfectly, I want max yield and max quality.
Only concern I have is that I’ve read that red clover needs a 1 in 6 rotation, mine will be a 1 in 4, am I better with a large leaf white clover, and if so, will I sacrifice much yield and quality?
Also, is white clover shallower rooting? Will I have the same soil structuring benefit as a red clover?

 

[Jdunn55]

Ideally I’d like it to be a 2 year ley as it fits into the rotation perfectly, I want max yield and max quality.
Only concern I have is that I’ve read that red clover needs a 1 in 6 rotation, mine will be a 1 in 4, am I better with a large leaf white clover, and if so, will I sacrifice much yield and quality?
Also, is white clover shallower rooting? Will I have the same soil structuring benefit as a red clover?

White clover is even more expensive than red clover so quote honestly stick with red!

Red will still be fine for a 2 year ley if that's what you need but you wont be getting 100% of its benefit purely because it lasts longer if you know what I mean! Personally I wouldnt worry about it being 1 in 4. How long would the actual ley run for is my only other question? Plant in the autumn and then harvest next year, and the year after? Or plant in the spring and harvest for the next 18 months?

Imo italian ryegrass lasts for about 18 months and then runs out of steam so if planted in the autumn, after the first cut in the second year it might struggle, whereas hybrid ryegrass will do this with ease! Seed cost was exactly the same for both of them when I bought 30 acres worth a few months ago

 

[Great In Grass]

White & Red clover seed is the same price (we'll mine is).

A 1:4 ratio will be fine.

Clovers don't start to fixate N until their second season so some N at establishment is good.

We sell hundreds of acres of a 2 year short term IRG/Red Clover mix which will produce high yields and high quality forage for 2 years easy.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Will all depend on the length of time you intend to keep it. If only for a year I would use red clover and tetraflorum, a monster tetraploid IRG variety. Can even be sown in spring and you will get 3 cuts out of it no sweat.

If you want to keep the red clover 3 years then would switch to hybrids, probably would use Lofa (festulolium) and possibly a diploid IRG to give some ground cover.

Grass/herbage seed is all expensive but the seed cost is absolutely fudge all compared to the fertiliser/cake spend you will have alongside it. Don't try to economise on this kind of seed, it's pointless.

White clover tends to be more expensive but is a very different plant.

Put the mix in, feed it (clovers need P and K like anything else) and cut it until you get bored.

Can establish under spring barley very very easily if sowing in the spring. Sow the barley at a reduced rate. Put the grass/clover seed in on top, one quick and easy clover safe spray at the right time, some N for the barley (no more than 50 units) and mow it all 1st week of July.

 

[Al R]

Neighbour does some red clover leys, they look like 95% clover the first 3 years and then ryegrass/Amg takes over in the gaps, got a 5 year ley I graze every winter which would now be 75% red clover, little - maybe no fert applied.

 

[Rattie]

This is a good place to start.

From bitter (organic) experience of 1 and 2 year leys, we now make sure we select late seeding ryegrass and early flowering clovers in combination. A catchy spring and ryegrass seed return is as bad a problem as blackgrass for us.

Recommended Grass and Clover Lists 2020/21 | AHDB

The Recommended Grass and Clover Lists for England and Wales are drawn up after rigorous testing for attributes such as yield, persistency, quality and disease resistance. The data come from trials carried out by the NIAB-TAG, Barenbrug, IBERS, DLF Seeds, DSV, AFBI and SRUC, and are evaluated by...

ahdb.org.uk

 

[dogjon]

White & Red clover seed is the same price (we'll mine is).

A 1:4 ratio will be fine.

Clovers don't start to fixate N until their second season so some N at establishment is good.

We sell hundreds of acres of a 2 year short term IRG/Red Clover mix which will produce high yields and high quality forage for 2 years easy.

I was under the impression that irg would only give you 2 yrs if spring planted?

 

[Great In Grass]

I was under the impression that irg would only give you 2 yrs if spring planted?

I would expect with something like our Barenbrug High D Italian mixture autumn-sown to do two full seasons of high forage production. It grows at temperatures as low as 3°C which gives the farms here in the SW an added advantage of early spring growth.

 

[Great In Grass]

Red Clover/Festulolium mixture from 2018.

 

[JMTHORNLEY]

Please please please if you do nothing else speak with Stephen Caldwell at Grass Science, the man is a total genius and will happily help you out in what your after, as for the next bit it’s nothing more than my own experience along with Stephens help..

I have put some red clover mowing and grazing leys in this back end to do the same as you and reduce bought in feed. Here are the results sown in August and these pictures were taken a few weeks ago. It’s since held 8/9 lambs an acre on there and has no sign of stopping growing just yet. He blends his own mixtures and has no affiliation to anyone, his advice is honest, plain and simple

 

[jackrussell101]

Has anyone used the Cotswold Seeds Fast and Vast?

If so, how did you get on?

How many tonnes FW would you expect off a 1 year ley?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Has anyone used the Cotswold Seeds Fast and Vast?

If so, how did you get on?

How many tonnes FW would you expect off a 1 year ley?

Selling a lot of this one , but if you only want one year you be better with Westerwolds not Italian, just go Westerwolds Crimson Vetch , no point spending on Red for one year




4.50 kg MERIBEL Italian Ryegrass Dip
3.50 kg FABIO Italian Ryegrass Tet
1.00 kg CALISTO Red Clover

1.00 kg ATLANTIS Red Clover Tet
1.00 kg CONTEA Crimson Clover
5.00 kg Common Vetch
16.00 kg per acre

 

[Great In Grass]

Has anyone used the Cotswold Seeds Fast and Vast?

If so, how did you get on?

How many tonnes FW would you expect off a 1 year ley?

I have done a similar mix in the past and it produces a large amount of quality forage, around £65.00/22kgs (I think).

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Some of this went out today
Festulolium Clamp Buster + Vetch and Clover

3.00 kg MERLIN Festulolium (Italian Ryegrass x Meadow Fescue)

3.00 kg PERSIUS Festulolium (Hybrid Ryegrass x Meadow Fescue)

2.00 kg MERIBEL Italian Ryegrass Dip

2.00 kg GEMINI Italian Ryegrass Tet

1.00 kg CALISTO Red Clover

1.00 kg ATLANTIS Red Clover Tet
1.00 kg CONTEA Crimson Clover

5.00 CANDY Vetch
18 kg per acre