Are the days of lambing inside numbered?

[britt]

We do it from lambs scanned to sold fat.

They start costing you money at tupping. Ewes put to the tup is the start point.
There has been a lot of talk of hygiene, but I came to the conclusion that having individual pens dry is the most important part. clean them out and give the concrete 24hrs to dry out.
I had a terrible waterymouth problem when I first kept sheep and the vet told me it was because I was "too bloody lazy" and must clean out the pens between each family. It worked instantly. Over the years I dropped disinfecting them as this wet the concrete slowing down the time before the pen could be reused. You can get away with breaking the 24hr rule for the busiest 2 days of lambing, but having enough pens is essential, not a luxury.
The kids used to clean the pens out after school, 50p a pen. They were really miffed when I went to outdoor lambing.

 

[PhilipB]

This liming pen thing-

Is that over straw? I'm assuming not.

And cows colostrum - I'm confused as to what this does and doesn't do... Clearly it has energy, but does it have any relevant antibodies for lambs.

We use it and I just wonder if, in a triplet, I find them, two have full bellies, the weaker one not, I fill the weaker one with cow's colostrum a couple of times. Other two have now drunk all the ewe colostrum. Weaker one starts sucking happily enough. Success! He's through the first 48 hours, but has never had ewe colostrum and goes out to the field and never does well.

I don't have proof of that. I just wonder if there is a link between cow colostrum and failure to thrive.

 

[tr250]

They start costing you money at tupping. Ewes put to the tup is the start point.
There has been a lot of talk of hygiene, but I came to the conclusion that having individual pens dry is the most important part. clean them out and give the concrete 24hrs to dry out.
I had a terrible waterymouth problem when I first kept sheep and the vet told me it was because I was "too bloody lazy" and must clean out the pens between each family. It worked instantly. Over the years I dropped disinfecting them as this wet the concrete slowing down the time before the pen could be reused. You can get away with breaking the 24hr rule for the busiest 2 days of lambing, but having enough pens is essential, not a luxury.
The kids used to clean the pens out after school, 50p a pen. They were really miffed when I went to outdoor lambing.

Yes probably but you haven’t actually got a number of lambs to work to for instance if you have 500 scanned at 195% and sell 900 fat lambs you have somehow lost 75 lambs which is the only bit you have real control of.

 

[Optimus]

This liming pen thing-

Is that over straw? I'm assuming not.

And cows colostrum - I'm confused as to what this does and doesn't do... Clearly it has energy, but does it have any relevant antibodies for lambs.

We use it and I just wonder if, in a triplet, I find them, two have full bellies, the weaker one not, I fill the weaker one with cow's colostrum a couple of times. Other two have now drunk all the ewe colostrum. Weaker one starts sucking happily enough. Success! He's through the first 48 hours, but has never had ewe colostrum and goes out to the field and never does well.

I don't have proof of that. I just wonder if there is a link between cow colostrum and failure to thrive.

We put lime down then straw on top.

 

[Mc115reed]

They start costing you money at tupping. Ewes put to the tup is the start point.
There has been a lot of talk of hygiene, but I came to the conclusion that having individual pens dry is the most important part. clean them out and give the concrete 24hrs to dry out.
I had a terrible waterymouth problem when I first kept sheep and the vet told me it was because I was "too bloody lazy" and must clean out the pens between each family. It worked instantly. Over the years I dropped disinfecting them as this wet the concrete slowing down the time before the pen could be reused. You can get away with breaking the 24hr rule for the busiest 2 days of lambing, but having enough pens is essential, not a luxury.
The kids used to clean the pens out after school, 50p a pen. They were really miffed when I went to outdoor lambing.

That’s all well and good if your penning up on concrete... not everybody has that luxury...

 

[neilo]

That’s all well and good if your penning up on concrete... not everybody has that luxury...

Or the luxury of enough space to leave pens empty for 24-48 hours.

The lamb is generally dropped on the bedding in a group pen, before being moved to an individual pen (freshly cleaned out or not) and it is licked by a mother that has been snuffling round in that group pen. The lamb is already contaminated before it gets to the individual pens, however sterile they might be.
Cleaning out the pens will reduce bacteria in the lambs environment, but it certainly won’t eliminate it.

 

[primmiemoo]

This liming pen thing-

Is that over straw? I'm assuming not.

And cows colostrum - I'm confused as to what this does and doesn't do... Clearly it has energy, but does it have any relevant antibodies for lambs.

We use it and I just wonder if, in a triplet, I find them, two have full bellies, the weaker one not, I fill the weaker one with cow's colostrum a couple of times. Other two have now drunk all the ewe colostrum. Weaker one starts sucking happily enough. Success! He's through the first 48 hours, but has never had ewe colostrum and goes out to the field and never does well.

I don't have proof of that. I just wonder if there is a link between cow colostrum and failure to thrive.

From what I've read, cow colostrum is for situations where the flock hasn't enough colostrum to hand milk.
It isn't natural to sheep, so it's emergency only. If the donor cow has been vaccinated against clostridials, she will pass some immunity to the colostrum that can pass to a lamb, but it isn't perfect.

Here, afterbirth, beddingn and dung is removed from the pen. Lime applied, and then fresh straw on top. Ideally barley.
Always have far more pens than the books say, and make sure they are moved to a fresh area, or well cleaned and rested on alternate weeks.

 

[unlacedgecko]

All of the above sounds like an awful lot of work.

 

[hally]

We never clean out lambing pens, thick layer of straw maybe some hydrated lime and we give triplets and weaker lambs a Terramycin pill and spray all navels , never have much bother but the trick will be being brave enough to eliminate the use of the pills. Will try some triplets this year and see how we do.

 

[rancher]

We never clean out lambing pens, thick layer of straw maybe some hydrated lime and we give triplets and weaker lambs a Terramycin pill and spray all navels , never have much bother but the trick will be being brave enough to eliminate the use of the pills. Will try some triplets this year and see how we do.

We always clean them out after each ewe, sweep them out thoroughly and spray with sorgene, I hate the dust of lime and it also sticks the dung to the floor and leaves it impossible to sweep out properly. We use Solway pens which are easily cleaned
Being self employed has enough disadvantages but at least you can do what suits yourself, if any of the systems specified here weren't successful they wouldn't be used

 

[M-J-G]

Or the luxury of enough space to leave pens empty for 24-48 hours.

The lamb is generally dropped on the bedding in a group pen, before being moved to an individual pen (freshly cleaned out or not) and it is licked by a mother that has been snuffling round in that group pen. The lamb is already contaminated before it gets to the individual pens, however sterile they might be.
Cleaning out the pens will reduce bacteria in the lambs environment, but it certainly won’t eliminate it.

Not to mention the ewe's belly and udder, which she has been laying on in the group pen in that corner where so many of them choose to lamb.
Then the lamb mouths its way around her belly and onto her udder.

Group pen hygiene is equally as important as individual pens IMO

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Not to mention the ewe's belly and udder, which she has been laying on in the group pen in that corner where so many of them choose to lamb.
Then the lamb mouths its way around her belly and onto her udder.

Group pen hygiene is equally as important as individual pens IMO

This is why I’m not a fan of pens in the big group pens. Over the course of lambing 40 or 50 sheep might choose too lamb in the same 10m square! By the end of the second week there’s an awful lot of birthing fluids soaked into the straw! We bed up daily and spread plenty of lime about. But by the end of the first month there are corners that start too smell. Luckily after the first month we’ve lambed enough too start clearing sheds out and starting fresh for the rest of lambing.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Just a suggestive example but How about this, 2 sheds or even three, and house the ewes in different shed each year, as bugs can survive for 12 months or so but the would give a shed a longer break,
Swap with cattle and hay and straw storage .

Lambing pens in the same old place I s at least a no, no surely ...... and steel instead of timber ....

 

[Anymulewilldo]

They start costing you money at tupping. Ewes put to the tup is the start point.
There has been a lot of talk of hygiene, but I came to the conclusion that having individual pens dry is the most important part. clean them out and give the concrete 24hrs to dry out.
I had a terrible waterymouth problem when I first kept sheep and the vet told me it was because I was "too bloody lazy" and must clean out the pens between each family. It worked instantly. Over the years I dropped disinfecting them as this wet the concrete slowing down the time before the pen could be reused. You can get away with breaking the 24hr rule for the busiest 2 days of lambing, but having enough pens is essential, not a luxury.
The kids used to clean the pens out after school, 50p a pen. They were really miffed when I went to outdoor lambing.

Mine start costing even the millisecond that gavel drops...

Sorry couldn’t help it

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Just a suggestive example but How about this, 2 sheds or even three, and house the ewes in different shed each year, as bugs can survive for 12 months or so but the would give a shed a longer break,
Swap with cattle and hay and straw storage .

Lambing pens in the same old place I s at least a no, no surely ...... and steel instead of timber ....

I’m going too need a lot more shedding then...

The ewe and lamb pens always go in the same place as there is plenty of lights, good concrete floors that stand the pressure washer and they are easy too load out off to take out too the fields.

Plus I’d have too spend a fortune making my sheep sheds cattle proof. The cattle divisions are all concrete panels too make sure they are fast. Don’t fancy coughing up to do the rest of the sheds too!

Other than that it’s not a bad idea!

 

[Bury the Trash]

I’m going too need a lot more shedding then...

The ewe and lamb pens always go in the same place as there is plenty of lights, good concrete floors that stand the pressure washer and they are easy too load out off to take out too the fields.

Plus I’d have too spend a fortune making my sheep sheds cattle proof. The cattle divisions are all concrete panels too make sure they are fast. Don’t fancy coughing up to do the rest of the sheds too!

Other than that it’s not a bad idea!

Might help a bit but the trouble is one sheeps biggest problem is another sheep as they say, disease will be carried and multiplied with them anyway , unless they keep on the move over a very large area.

All sorts of things will have to be looked at though, with regards to AB's .....anything that helps even a bit will be worth it and I suppose it's no good saying ' what about the poultry boys ..... look at what they use......

Could be that the idea that Pruex are pursuing will be one avenue of developement but all sorts of things will need to be tried for the future.

Vaccinating sheep can help don' t forget

 

[texelburger]

Going slightly against popular belief in that a few years ago we stopped cleaning out lambing pens .We now spray Soregene(sp ?) and litter well.We also stopped any treatment for watery mouth and I an honestly say that I only know of 2 lambs which had it in the last 4 years(500 lambs/ year), . Mastitis reduced greatly too,virtually zero in the commercials and a bit higher in the Texels.
Maybe it's just luck ,also the shed is cleaned thoroughly before and after lambing as its then used for machinery and temporary grain storage.

 

[primmiemoo]

Thought the mastitis was clobbered - which it largely is at point of lambing and early turnout - but then there's the blackudder that starts at 5 weeks out to field

 

[britt]

That’s all well and good if your penning up on concrete... not everybody has that luxury...

Is it a luxury or a basic welfare need ? If you are spending money on ABs or snake oil instead. Or carrying the cost of dead lambs.

Mine start costing even the millisecond that gavel drops...

Sorry couldn’t help it

Breed your own instead of buying other folks infections.

 

[britt]

All of the above sounds like an awful lot of work.

Yes, I found an even lazier way. Lambing outside.