Avatar/750A in chopped straw

[Brisel]

Am I mad for thinking I could get away with this? I've had demos of a Pro Series opener equipped 750A and an Avatar in a field of chopped spring barley. The 750a hair pinned straw into the slot 10 days ago but this was after 17mm of rain the previous day. The Avatar demo was today in much better conditions and cut through the straw nicely.

No doubt you will all tell me I shouldn't be considering a disc in this instance. A tine would be best for sweeping the straw aside but I already have a Claydon with a leading disc kit and want better seed placement. Are row cleaners worth it?

 

[Simon Chiles]

Am I mad for thinking I could get away with this? I've had demos of a Pro Series opener equipped 750A and an Avatar in a field of chopped spring barley. The 750a hair pinned straw into the slot 10 days ago but this was after 17mm of rain the previous day. The Avatar demo was today in much better conditions and cut through the straw nicely.

No doubt you will all tell me I shouldn't be considering a disc in this instance. A tine would be best for sweeping the straw aside but I already have a Claydon with a leading disc kit and want better seed placement. Are row cleaners worth it?

Using a disc drill the day after 17mm of rain is always going to give a poor result. From my ( albeit limited) experience of the pro series opener it is a quantum leap forward in seed placement compared to the 90 series boot. You can reduce hair pinning by running in drier straw conditions and reducing the press wheel pressure, it’s probably best to have no press wheel pressure in these conditions.

 

[Brisel]

When you say press wheel, do you mean the one directly behind the coulter assembly or the rear one?

 

[Simon Chiles]

When you say press wheel, do you mean the one directly behind the coulter assembly or the rear one?

Yes. The Gauge wheel is the one that runs alongside the disc and sets the seeding depth. The press or firming wheel runs in the slot and is used to firm the seed into the soil, it’s this wheel that makes the 750 in a different league to other drills but used incorrectly can be its Achilles heel and is probably the most common bit that operators set incorrectly. The closing wheel is the one that follows to break the sidewall of the slot and cover the seed.

 

[Brisel]

Thanks Simon. Both drills are very impressive to see in action - I can see why the openers are so popular. I'm now on a steep learning curve as I work towards the purchase of a proper no till drill, but do promise not to be quite as prevaricating and geeky as @Feldspar Please bear with me while I ask so many questions! Then buy a tine drill...!

 

[AF Salers]

On occasions I have drilled into chopped straw with success with my 750a. N down the slot certainly helps achieve higher % germination and increasing the seedrate to replace those lost due to the hair pinning are the obvious measures to take. As Simon says, you want as dry a straw as possible and fairly new (sharp) discs will help.

This all said I have bought a CO4 and put Metcalfe's on it to drill into chopped straw and drill cc's cheaper.

 

[KJM]

As others have suggested sharp disks, dry straw and ground help, deeper planted seeds are also easier.
Have fitted row cleaners to the 750 this year. They appear to make a big difference moving the trash out the way, giving better seed placement allowing the drill to be run shallower. They don't leave nice clean strips like on maize planters as they are close together and throw trash over each other, but importantly the ground is clean when the disk is cutting. Leaving the stubble longer if possible helps reduce the amount of trash on the surface.

 

[Clive]

Row cleaners do help a lot in my experience in this situation on a 750a

Trouble is they are not cheap

Also found prilled lime can help where straw hairpins. New sharp discs also help

Can’t say the avatar is any better or worse than the 750a yet in limited experience so far, I don’t expect any difference really as coulters are so similar

 

[Farmer Roy]

not a JD750a, but a very similar row unit design
planting canola - no hair pinning here.
Admittedly, the straw was quite brittle

went on to produce a very good canola crop apparently

 

[Farmer Roy]

the best thing you can do with ANY disc opener row unit, single or double disc, is run new, sharp discs

 

[Brisel]

Any of you guys running the wider SW Avatars with row cleaners? @Clive @ajd132 ?

Does running the disc deeper help with hair pinning straw? Can you even adjust the depth of the coulter relative to the disc on JD openers?

 

[Simon Chiles]

Does running the disc deeper help with hair pinning straw? Can you even adjust the depth of the coulter relative to the disc on JD openers?

Yes to the first question. Yes to the second, however most people don’t. You should move the seed boot down for shallow seeding and high trash situations.

 

[Brisel]

I've lost you here Simon - won't moving the seed boot down reduce the depth of the disc??

 

[Farmer Roy]

I've lost you here Simon - won't moving the seed boot down reduce the depth of the disc??

no, the disc is the same depth in relation to your depth adjustment, it just means the seed boot is running lower in the trench, reducing the likelihood of hair pinning any loose straw & depositing the seed nearer the bottom of the trench / better seed placement. Not so important if you are planting at 70mm deep, but fairly crucial if you are only at 15 mm. The downside of that is increased wear of the seed boot, especially if you go deep again without lifting the boot back up

 

[Brisel]

Thank you. So I would be best reducing the disc depth for a constant seed depth of small seed crops which is what I'd be planting into chopped barley straw, not the other way around. It sounds like I should just fit new discs before the August cover crop/osr sowing campaign. When moving to cereal sowing later on at 30-50mm, bring the seed boot higher up to extend the life of the coulter and to compensate for the disc wear. I was thinking that starting with the seed boot higher up the disc & a deeper disc depth would help with cutting through the straw better.

 

[D14]

We used a 750 to drill some cover crops into laid barley stubble. It was a matt of laid straw in places literally the whole stalk just bent over with the head removed. It was dry conditions admittedly but the disc on the drill were well worn. It sliced through the laid straw and did a great job. We were really surprised thinking we were going to have to tried to top it somehow. If it can do that it'll do hoped straw so its about the conditions at the time which clearly must be dry.

 

[H.Jackson]

The disc will always cut better when the soil and straw are drier, dry straw is brittle and dry soil offers more resistance to cut against.
The pro series boot may have the edge here as it looks easier to change boot position.
In moist soil taking the pressure off the firming wheel reduced the amount of straw in the slot dramatically.
Time spent last week shimming play out of the closing wheel arm made a huge difference to slot closure overseeding grass last night.
Still tweaking and learning booked up a section control enabled controller yesterday wow that's nice to use.

 

[Acke]

Row cleaners do help a lot in my experience in this situation on a 750a

Trouble is they are not cheap

Also found prilled lime can help where straw hairpins. New sharp discs also help

Can’t say the avatar is any better or worse than the 750a yet in limited experience so far, I don’t expect any difference really as coulters are so similar

Do you have rowcleaners on your Avatar?
If , what brand?

 

[Clive]

Do you have rowcleaners on your Avatar?
If , what brand?

not yet - but they are available from Horsch for the wider row space machines like our 12.25

thought we would see how we got on without first before buying a set - looking at osr yesterday so far so good !

 

[Clive]

Yes. The Gauge wheel is the one that runs alongside the disc and sets the seeding depth. The press or firming wheel runs in the slot and is used to firm the seed into the soil, it’s this wheel that makes the 750 in a different league to other drills but used incorrectly can be its Achilles heel and is probably the most common bit that operators set incorrectly. The closing wheel is the one that follows to break the sidewall of the slot and cover the seed.

agree the firming wheel is the magic part on the 750a .................. but the avatar has one as well now that's equally magic

the avatar culter is so similar to the 750a but seemingly designed this century from an engineering and maintenance point of view

JD needs to up their game here to keep their crown IMO a new 750a is long overdue and must surely be on the way now ?