Bionature fertilisers

[Cordiale]

Have any of you guys on here tried the above products. If so did you get a yield boost, and more importantly was it cost effective?

 

[Brisel]

Ask Tim Lamyman....!

 

[Mr chips]

We have been using Bionature for 10 years on potatoes. With some outstanding results. We have done our own trials year on year. We have run them on the side of our normal nutritional program.

 

[Cordiale]

Ask Tim Lamyman....!

Yes I am aware he uses them for his record attempts. But I think his inputs are sponsored, not sure though. However I don't seem to see many reports about other people having outstanding results.

 

[Cordiale]

We have been using Bionature for 10 years on potatoes. With some outstanding results. We have done our own trials year on year. We have run them on the side of our normal nutritional program.

I know they are good for root crops, but have you trialled them on wheat?

 

[Midnight plough boy]

I’ve trialled them on WW, S Barley, OSR, and Peas - this was back in 2014 & 2015 so using the original Delta K, 1-4All, Cal-flux and Tip-Top. Can’t comment on any newer offerings such as Rainbow Wave.

I spent a day with Tim, and went through the science behind it all, and programmes for each crop.

I did 4 ha trials in 20 ha fields and saw very little yield response (or grain quality response) in any of the crops mentioned above over the 2 years, and certainly nothing like any return to cover the £160+ / ha spend on the inputs.

I did however trial N-Lock from Dow in separate blocks in the same WW fields in the same year and saw a 0.5t/ha yield response and an increase in grain protein of 0.4% in milling wheat.

I have heard that in potatoes the response is fairly consistent.

 

[ajd132]

The worse condition your soil is in biologically the better these things work. It’s why often these products have really good results on veg/salad/glasshouse type crops because the soil has little of its own function.
All these products usually have a use but I think best to get independent trials done on them, especially rates as form experience the manufacturers usually recommend 3 times more than is neccesery!

 

[Brisel]

The worse condition your soil is in biologically the better these things work. It’s why often these products have really good results on veg/salad/glasshouse type crops because the soil has little of its own function.
All these products usually have a use but I think best to get independent trials done on them, especially rates as form experience the manufacturers usually recommend 3 times more than is neccesery!

Are you over analysing this? Could it just be that very high value crops will show a MOIC more easily than bulk field commodities like wheat where there are more factors that inhibit the crop potential? I don't know the answer to this, just questioning your agenda

 

[ajd132]

Are you over analysing this? Could it just be that very high value crops will show a MOIC more easily than bulk field commodities like wheat where there are more factors that inhibit the crop potential? I don't know the answer to this, just questioning your agenda

No agenda, someone who sells this stuff told me this.

 

[ajd132]

Are you over analysing this? Could it just be that very high value crops will show a MOIC more easily than bulk field commodities like wheat where there are more factors that inhibit the crop potential? I don't know the answer to this, just questioning your agenda

I was told basically that a mixed farm with loads of manure and grass in the rotation will have far less effect from this stuff compared to an arable farm that’s taken straw away for 40 years and replaced with tsp or an intense veg operation that is very cultivation intensive.

 

[Brisel]

Yes I am aware he uses them for his record attempts. But I think his inputs are sponsored, not sure though. However I don't seem to see many reports about other people having outstanding results.

Sorry for my slightly facetious response. Tim seems to be a brand ambassador for them - I can't blame them for wanting to surf the wave of success. Tim's YEN record attempts haven't always worked out well with a clear net margin over input costs. He withdrew his attempt in at least one year when the yield potential was limited for what may be other reasons. He was spending circa £150/ha extra on Bionature products, so needed the higher yield potential to show the net gain. That said, he seemed to be ahead most of the time.

 

[AndrewM]

They don't seem to work if you just buy a load and chuck them on. Its back to that leaking barrel of yield limiting factors. Heard tim give a presentation once, inbetween promoting the bionature products he outlined how he spent a long time getting his cultivation and drilling system just perfect, how he has been using large amounts of muck for years, and spent a lot of time doing leaf tissue analysis to work out what is crops where short of and when, then found and uses the appropriate nutrients to fill in the gaps.

 

[SilliamWhale]

They don't seem to work if you just buy a load and chuck them on. Its back to that leaking barrel of yield limiting factors. Heard tim give a presentation once, inbetween promoting the bionature products he outlined how he spent a long time getting his cultivation and drilling system just perfect, how he has been using large amounts of muck for years, and spent a lot of time doing leaf tissue analysis to work out what is crops where short of and when, then found and uses the appropriate nutrients to fill in the gaps.

Even leaf tissue analysis can get expensive. £90 odd or more per sample. And its very changeable

Personal view is that front loading costs like this on relatively pricey ferts is probably not likely to enrich you that much. You may get yield increases here and there, you may get no reaction but what is immutable is that you will have spent your money 6-8 months before you get it back on what looks to be a marginal gain compared to all the other low hanging fruit.

Dare to be average!

 

[ajd132]

Even leaf tissue analysis can get expensive. £90 odd or more per sample. And its very changeable

Personal view is that front loading costs like this on relatively pricey ferts is probably not likely to enrich you that much. You may get yield increases here and there, you may get no reaction but what is immutable is that you will have spent your money 6-8 months before you get it back on what looks to be a marginal gain compared to all the other low hanging fruit.

Dare to be average!

Capital risk vs reward. What is the point in spending a load of cash to eeek our a bit more yield only for the season to go completely against you.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Capital risk vs reward. What is the point in spending a load of cash to eeek our a bit more yield only for the season to go completely against you.

People talk about the marginal gains in sport where money is less of a restriction. I'm not so sure I feel the same about growing a bit of corn!

 

[ajd132]

People talk about the marginal gains in sport where money is less of a restriction. I'm not so sure I feel the same about growing a bit of corn!

I agree. I am using a bio stimulant that has been in some independent trials, the whole program costs about £15/ha in wheat which is significantly less that most of the stuff these people are selling. And it came out very well in these trials, done by a large U.K. farming company

 

[SilliamWhale]

I agree. I am using a bio stimulant that has been in some independent trials, the whole program costs about £15/ha in wheat which is significantly less that most of the stuff these people are selling. And it came out very well in these trials, done by a large U.K. farming company

The other thing about these ferts is that there is sometimes a lack of product labelling on their contents etc. and fancy names which doesn't help us sort the wheat from the chaff.

Sometimes the massive range of products also makes me arch an eyebrow - if micro elements make a significant difference then it ought to be repeatable and consistent. Quite a few on twitter spunk their load on what John Kempf or Nicole Masters are saying but for me all I see are people trying to sell inoculants and potions - all with nice different labels to cure issues that can be done with more concentration on the basics of soil fertility and function.

Furthermore what do some of these things contain that can't be provided with an ibc of micronutrients from agrii a lot cheaper?

 

[ajd132]

The other thing about these ferts is that there is sometimes a lack of product labelling on their contents etc. and fancy names which doesn't help us sort the wheat from the chaff.

Sometimes the massive range of products also makes me arch an eyebrow - if micro elements make a significant difference then it ought to be repeatable and consistent. Quite a few on twitter spunk their load on what John Kempf or Nicole Masters are saying but for me all I see are people trying to sell inoculants and potions - all with nice different labels to cure issues that can be done with more concentration on the basics of soil fertility and function.

Furthermore what do some of these things contain that can't be provided with an ibc of micronutrients from agrii a lot cheaper?

The key is to learn from these people then as you say buy the components yourself and tailor it to your own situation. This is what we are doing. No way am I buying expensive cans of water with abit of humic acid and nutrition in it!

 

[SilliamWhale]

The key is to learn from these people then as you say buy the components yourself and tailor it to your own situation. This is what we are doing. No way am I buying expensive cans of water with abit of humic acid and nutrition in it!

I do listen to these people but sometimes I find they kind of go off on one a bit with a flight of fancy which I know is either conjecture, exaggeration or just utter bulls**t. I then lose trust in what is said. Especially if I don't feel the evidence is there.

We are all guilty of that from time to time so its human nature but then again but Nullius in verba and all that

 

[Cordiale]

I’ve trialled them on WW, S Barley, OSR, and Peas - this was back in 2014 & 2015 so using the original Delta K, 1-4All, Cal-flux and Tip-Top. Can’t comment on any newer offerings such as Rainbow Wave.

I spent a day with Tim, and went through the science behind it all, and programmes for each crop.

I did 4 ha trials in 20 ha fields and saw very little yield response (or grain quality response) in any of the crops mentioned above over the 2 years, and certainly nothing like any return to cover the £160+ / ha spend on the inputs.

I did however trial N-Lock from Dow in separate blocks in the same WW fields in the same year and saw a 0.5t/ha yield response and an increase in grain protein of 0.4% in milling wheat.

I have heard that in potatoes the response is fairly consistent.

Thank you, very interesting.