Boris is new foreign secretary

[Texel Tup]

No need to swear

…….. , as Ken Clarke rightly pointed out - no two Brexit advocates can come up with the same description as to what Brexit should mean.

…….. ?

I detected a note of frustration in the post to which you refer. It remains a simple fact though that the majority of the population want us to sever our ties with the EU, NOT Europe, and they are totally separate matters. We are Europeans, and short of widening the English Channel by 1000 miles, nothing will change that.
To expect those parliamentarians who would have us leave, to have had a prepared plan for our exit really doesn't make for much sense. "Right, that's it, I'm off" was never going to work. Our exit from the EU needs to be negotiated so that we re-build our trade agreements with those European countries with which we already deal, and this will take time.
Properly managed and run with a will, our exit from the EU will benefit not just the UK but Europe as well.

 

[Texel Tup]

We are however in something of a dilemma; Lets consider how we're to unravel much of the bureaucratic bollox. It won't be straightforward. Take for instance the EID requirements for sheep which was no more than an exercise in muscle flexing as it achieved absolutely nothing. If we are to abandon the lunacy of EID then the EU (NOT the individual Continental buyers of our lamb), will simply apply a condition that individual member states must abide by the EU regulations, and export of lamb to the EU will be denied us.
If I'm right and Brussels imposes conditions upon the remaining EU states, then I suspect that we may well find that we were at the head of the exodus, and that will either bring about a welcome collapse of the Euro and the EU, or Brussels and the magnates within will feels a sense of neutering of their powers.
What ever happens, it will take some while!

 

[JP1]

I detected a note of frustration in the post to which you refer. It remains a simple fact though that the majority of the population want us to sever our ties with the EU, NOT Europe, and they are totally separate matters. We are Europeans, and short of widening the English Channel by 1000 miles, nothing will change that.
To expect those parliamentarians who would have us leave, to have had a prepared plan for our exit really doesn't make for much sense. "Right, that's it, I'm off" was never going to work. Our exit from the EU needs to be negotiated so that we re-build our trade agreements with those European countries with which we already deal, and this will take time.
Properly managed and run with a will, our exit from the EU will benefit not just the UK but Europe as well.

So which model should we follow? I'm thinking we'll end up with the Norway model and the Brexiters will still be unhappy

 

[Texel Tup]

So which model should we follow? I'm thinking we'll end up with the Norway model and the Brexiters will still be unhappy

I'm really not sure that a 'model' is in place. If we're to 'negotiate' our exit, that will obviously mean a degree of acceptance from Brussels. If they don't agree to our release, and it seems that they don't, by filibustering and prevaricating, then they can effectively block any moves that we would propose.
My honest opinion is that we're already so deeply set in to the quicksand of the EU ethos, that extrication simply isn't going to happen, a fact of which the Westminster Remain group are very well aware. The tactics from here will be, I predict;

"Well we're doing our best, we're attempting to comply with the will of the people, we're attaching levels of spin which are transparent and we realise that, but with our singular wish to remain, we're effectively nodding in agreement whilst by our ineptitude, we're achieving sod all! Oh well, at least we tried"!

 

[JP1]

I'm really not sure that a 'model' is in place. If we're to 'negotiate' our exit, that will obviously mean a degree of acceptance from Brussels. If they don't agree to our release, and it seems that they don't, by filibustering and prevaricating, then they can effectively block any moves that we would propose.
My honest opinion is that we're already so deeply set in to the quicksand of the EU ethos, that extrication simply isn't going to happen, a fact of which the Westminster Remain group are very well aware. The tactics from here will be, I predict;

"Well we're doing our best, we're attempting to comply with the will of the people, we're attaching levels of spin which are transparent and we realise that, but with our singular wish to remain, we're effectively nodding in agreement whilst by our ineptitude, we're achieving sod all! Oh well, at least we tried"!

I accept that there is a vote to leave.

The model I refer to is one of a range that was contained in that AHDB briefing document. It's not anything to do with the EU per se, just 5 future trading positions as recognised around the World

 

[Texel Tup]

@JP1 We have to accept that not every aspect of the EU is wrong or no more than an inconvenience, that I accept. Considering our food imports, it seems that Government are quite prepared for us to import just about anything and without conditions. This is clearly wrong and we need to be well aware of the conditions attached to ANY food, regardless of origin or growing and processing.

Regarding our other trade deals, and worldwide (to include Europe), then we arrange deals which will suit and are acceptable to both parties, just as we did pre-1974.

 

[Ashtree]

We are however in something of a dilemma; Lets consider how we're to unravel much of the bureaucratic bollox. It won't be straightforward. Take for instance the EID requirements for sheep which was no more than an exercise in muscle flexing as it achieved absolutely nothing. If we are to abandon the lunacy of EID then the EU (NOT the individual Continental buyers of our lamb), will simply apply a condition that individual member states must abide by the EU regulations, and export of lamb to the EU will be denied us.
If I'm right and Brussels imposes conditions upon the remaining EU states, then I suspect that we may well find that we were at the head of the exodus, and that will either bring about a welcome collapse of the Euro and the EU, or Brussels and the magnates within will feels a sense of neutering of their powers.
What ever happens, it will take some while!

Why would you at this stage welcome the collapse of the EU since you are shortly to be out of it?
Why would you welcome the collapse of the euro!

Just curious!

 

[Texel Tup]

If (when) the EU collapses, then the remaining States following our exit, will be free to establish Trade with us and without the restrictions and levies which will probably be introduced by Big Brother.

Accepting that the freedom which has previously been afforded to international banking has been the route cause of the world's current and dire straits, the Euro certainly hasn't benefited Europe. Along with one currency, there were plans in place for a common taxation policy, despite the current denials, an EU army and it wouldn't have surprised me to discover that moves would be afoot for a common language.

It's interesting that this is a farming forum, because most of us accept that we can't have a set of rules (without a myriad of derogations) which apply fairly to those who farm in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, so what chance was there of parity between the wealthier EU states and those which are poor and which, it seems to me, generally ignore every directive handed down from Brussels?

 

[jendan]

Considering Boris; I'm genuinely confused. On the one hand, I listen to the more learned who tell me that he's a highly intelligent and sharp witted man, and then I listen to him. Is he a highly intelligent idiot, or have I missed something?
Mind you, there is a precedent; Do we remember that frightful Beckett woman who, single handedly it seems, was responsible for the EU levying £MILLIONS as penalties and fines for her shambolic handling of the RPA, and then guess what, she was sidelined off to the FO? Were she a ewe, she'd have been culled out years ago, of no use and ugly.
I'll admit, I sometimes wonder what the thought processes are of those who appoint Ministers.

Elliot Morley (Becketts side kick) even eclipsed her.Hope hes still in prison.

 

[Texel Tup]

Elliot Morley received a 16 month jail term and served just one quarter of his time. 16 weeks for embezzling £31k? I'm not sure if he was made to repay the money or not.

 

[Texel Tup]

Further research reveals that he voluntarily re-paid the monies which he had falsely claimed, and best of all and to quote;

'He has also been stripped of a £64,000 resettlement grant he would normally receive on leaving parliament'.

The poor c***, I'm most upset for him!

 

[czechmate]

I detected a note of frustration in the post to which you refer. It remains a simple fact though that the majority of the population want us to sever our ties with the EU, NOT Europe, and they are totally separate matters. We are Europeans, and short of widening the English Channel by 1000 miles, nothing will change that.
To expect those parliamentarians who would have us leave, to have had a prepared plan for our exit really doesn't make for much sense. "Right, that's it, I'm off" was never going to work. Our exit from the EU needs to be negotiated so that we re-build our trade agreements with those European countries with which we already deal, and this will take time.
Properly managed and run with a will, our exit from the EU will benefit not just the UK but Europe as well.

I do agree with that

 

[czechmate]

We are however in something of a dilemma; Lets consider how we're to unravel much of the bureaucratic bollox. It won't be straightforward. Take for instance the EID requirements for sheep which was no more than an exercise in muscle flexing as it achieved absolutely nothing. If we are to abandon the lunacy of EID then the EU (NOT the individual Continental buyers of our lamb), will simply apply a condition that individual member states must abide by the EU regulations, and export of lamb to the EU will be denied us.
If I'm right and Brussels imposes conditions upon the remaining EU states, then I suspect that we may well find that we were at the head of the exodus, and that will either bring about a welcome collapse of the Euro and the EU, or Brussels and the magnates within will feels a sense of neutering of their powers.
What ever happens, it will take some while!

Nope. The uk will just carry on abiding by the regs to get the sales, the same as any business has to

 

[holywell farmer]

Is the PM going to send him to Syria ....

1 major gaff and he is out

 

[joe soapy]

All this fuss about trade deals. Just send the EU an email saying we is leaving.
then another to all the remaining members saying ring this number if you got
something to sell or want to buy some double glazing

 

[Pasty]

So which model should we follow? I'm thinking we'll end up with the Norway model and the Brexiters will still be unhappy

Well I for one, as a Brexiter would be happy with something very similar to Norway. I don't want to send all the blacks and muslims 'home' as the carefully chosen morons they show on Newsnight do, therby satisfying their neo-liberal BS and convincing themselves and others that they couldn't possibly be just totally, completely wrong. . That is nothing to do with me and I hate and detest the implication. I want progress in a well run system. That system, for me, is not the EU. It needs to be binned.

Peace and love.

The EU is a busted flush. That does not mean that we don't work closely with our NATO, Commonwealth, geographical, historical, new etc. neighbours and build a better world. We just need to get rid of these pigs and get on.

The EU is a haven for idiots who have failed to be elected democratically in their own countries or who have come from semi democracies like Luxembourg and just get pee'd up and start slapping people until they agree. Those folk are lucky we are in 2016 and not 1716 as they might be feeling a little heat around their toes at this point.

I'll get my coat.

 

[Texel Tup]

Edit! @Pasty (my apologies!), an excellent, well reasoned and well written post. It's time for the voice of middle England, the common man, to be heard.

Sooner or later those with the capacity to see beyond the extremist and point scoring bollox from BOTH sides (which must surely be seen as shallow and meaningless rhetoric), will have their thoughts seen as and treated, with reason.

I fail to understand how others are horrified at the prospects of Visa-issue, when those same people, travelling to the US are strangely silent. Somehow, those who apply logic and simple common sense need to band together. I'm becoming ever more f***ed-off with idiots.

ets. No need for your coat!

 

[Pasty]

It's been interesting being part of this. The way the media have handled it. In some ways the papers have done pretty well. Lot's of balanced views. But the news I watch on TV, BBC usually has been awful. Just finding reactionaries where they can. I get the feeling that there is a huge mass of people in charge of the media and other organisations who thought they were in control of us 'plebs' and who have just been, for want of a better term, bitch slapped. It has shocked them and they have let themselves down in response. They have lashed out and started calling names. Then they have dug out the worst of society, checked they voted leave and let them spew their bile over the TV. As if to prove a point. Anyone who voted leave is like this idiot.

I'm sad it has become so polarised because for me it wasn't. I was floating for a while. I thought long and hard and in the end did some serious research into the workings and history of the EU and finally the choice was obvious. The future clear. A future we must avoid, at all costs.

 

[rob1]

It's been interesting being part of this. The way the media have handled it. In some ways the papers have done pretty well. Lot's of balanced views. But the news I watch on TV, BBC usually has been awful. Just finding reactionaries where they can. I get the feeling that there is a huge mass of people in charge of the media and other organisations who thought they were in control of us 'plebs' and who have just been, for want of a better term, bitch slapped. It has shocked them and they have let themselves down in response. They have lashed out and started calling names. Then they have dug out the worst of society, checked they voted leave and let them spew their bile over the TV. As if to prove a point. Anyone who voted leave is like this idiot.

I'm sad it has become so polarised because for me it wasn't. I was floating for a while. I thought long and hard and in the end did some serious research into the workings and history of the EU and finally the choice was obvious. The future clear. A future we must avoid, at all costs.

couldnt agree more

 

[jendan]

couldnt agree more

There are still 48% of us who dont agree.