Bourgault VOS Horsch Co / Sprinter Conversions

jorgenbg

Member
Location
Oslo, Norway
Just bought a 3m Horsch Sprinter PPF with original Duetts.

Do I have to change points to DD or do the duetts work? I just got a price to change to VOS 4082 at almost 4 400 euros. I think thats a bit much.

Only cereals on medium to heavy clay. Winter wheat after spring oats is my first job todo.
 

PSQ

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Scottish Borders
Just bought a 3m Horsch Sprinter PPF with original Duetts.

Do I have to change points to DD or do the duetts work? I just got a price to change to VOS 4082 at almost 4 400 euros. I think thats a bit much.

Only cereals on medium to heavy clay. Winter wheat after spring oats is my first job todo.
Is the PPF system the liquid or solid fertilizer variant?
 
I would try the duets and see how you get on. I tried all the different coulters ( plus some home made variants!) on an 8 meter CO this year, and could not see any visible difference in establishment all season between any of them. Only benefit might be less horsepower required and less soil disturbance,. Or wait till the duets need replacing.
 

Gbrook

New Member
Yep, I'm in my third season on VOS openers on a 6 m Sprinter.
I'm on very abrasive Flint soil and they are wearing well, the first ones could crack across the mounting hole but I've not had an issue since the broken ones were replaced 2 years ago.
I've used them for everything from cereals and osr to Beans, maize and hemp with no blockages, in ploughed, shallow till and dd
The grain only ones became available the year after I bought mine, I'll replace with these once I've used my spares up.
Some of mine have covered 1600ha which is very good on this type of land...View attachment 786180 View attachment 786182
View attachment 786140
Very impressed with your tine wear.

I fitted a set of Bourgault VOS on my CO4 350ha ago and have lost 3 feet in my last 3 days drilling. I haven't found the feet yet so I can't be certain, but I suspect that they are breaking off due to heavy wear above the front toe, as I see small holes in the metal on some of them. My 350ha with 16 coulters is 22ha/coulter, compared to your 1600ha with 24 coulters and 66ha/coulter. Below are pictures of the wear on mine. I am direct drilling into kind, light soil.

After losing the first 2 feet I took out the Allen studs and re-Loctited them, then promptly lost another foot on the next outing, so I don't think this is the cause.

Excessive wear at the front and very little wear at the back makes me wonder if they are raked back too far in work. I've got the older, vertical breakaway springs with new flipper plates and pins. The nuts are wound down to show about 75mm of thread vs the 40mm recommended but may need to be squeezed even further.

I mounted the legs in the upper pair of holes as I found it hard to get depth in the others. Looking at the offset of the other holes I'm wondering if this is some of my problem.

Any experince
IMG_20200907_093919.jpg
IMG_20200907_164739.jpg
IMG_20200907_173840.jpg
or comments would be appreciated.
 

T Hectares

Member
Location
Berkshire
Very impressed with your tine wear.

I fitted a set of Bourgault VOS on my CO4 350ha ago and have lost 3 feet in my last 3 days drilling. I haven't found the feet yet so I can't be certain, but I suspect that they are breaking off due to heavy wear above the front toe, as I see small holes in the metal on some of them. My 350ha with 16 coulters is 22ha/coulter, compared to your 1600ha with 24 coulters and 66ha/coulter. Below are pictures of the wear on mine. I am direct drilling into kind, light soil.

After losing the first 2 feet I took out the Allen studs and re-Loctited them, then promptly lost another foot on the next outing, so I don't think this is the cause.

Excessive wear at the front and very little wear at the back makes me wonder if they are raked back too far in work. I've got the older, vertical breakaway springs with new flipper plates and pins. The nuts are wound down to show about 75mm of thread vs the 40mm recommended but may need to be squeezed even further.

I mounted the legs in the upper pair of holes as I found it hard to get depth in the others. Looking at the offset of the other holes I'm wondering if this is some of my problem.

Any experinceView attachment 906147View attachment 906148View attachment 906163 or comments would be appreciated.
Not sure, mine certainty haven't worn to that extreme in that area, if I've lost any they have fractured across the hole and dropped, probably after hitting a Sarsen stone, but I've only lost two in the last year.
Heel wear usually dictates a Coulter change
I'll take some pics to show when I'm back near the drill
 

Case140

Member
Interesting! I have a set of gen 5" on mine. The less worn one in the pic has covered 12ha and the badly worn (worn out!) one has done about 35 ha (not sure exactly because they were on the drill when I got it). You will notice the points are welded on because this gen suffers from a design flaw and the tips break off easily. I am planning to change (hopefully will get the winter barley done first🤞) away from gen to dutch or bourgault .Looking at that wear (and @gbook you are not far from me with much kinder land!!) I think I will be going for dutch!.
Anybody else see a reason for that terrible wear? Could the coulter be wrong and placing the tip at a wrong angle? Is the sprinter and co coulter the same or could you have the wrong ones? Just seems way off to me🤷‍♀️
 

Attachments

How’s everyone getting on with these, will they DD ok or do you need to move the soil first ?
I found it depends on the soil type. If it’s easy working sand/loam etc then yes. If it’s heavier clay, particularly with high Magnesium levels, then no as the combination of the tyre packer and Harrow don’t shut the slot well enough.
It’s one of the reasons the Triton work so well because the rear set of blades are designed to do just that job.
 

Gbrook

New Member
I talked with Stuart in Bourgault this morning and am going to follow a couple of his suggestions.

The Bourgault leg, as you can see from the photos, has 2 pairs of holes for mounting to the Horsch leg. I used the upper pair as I could not get enough depth in the lower ones (this is probably due to the rear ram on the drill not closing fully). This pair also angles the coulter back slightly and is intended to reduce smearing by the back of the coulter in clay soils. That is not an issue here so I will change holes and straighten the coulter.

I will also build up the excess wear above the tungsten tile on the front of the coulter and hard-face this.

As Warksfarmer, says they will DD well into light soils. I have DD sown some covers in heavier ground that is normally ploughed and it's okay but would need cultivation first for cash crops for at least a few years.
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
How’s everyone getting on with these, will they DD ok or do you need to move the soil first ?

VOS is the best CO conversion point by far IME and I've tried most now, the 19mm single shot is ideal and very low disturbance, done over 1000ac on a set and wear is still negligible at this point, boke or lost none either
 

Case140

Member
VOS is the best CO conversion point by far IME and I've tried most now, the 19mm single shot is ideal and very low disturbance, done over 1000ac on a set and wear is still negligible at this point, boke or lost none either
Have you any experience of the older gen (like mine) or the dutch with the rolled pin holding in?
Single shot leaves very wide crop spacing? Would you use for sp barley for example?
 

Case140

Member
I talked with Stuart in Bourgault this morning and am going to follow a couple of his suggestions.

The Bourgault leg, as you can see from the photos, has 2 pairs of holes for mounting to the Horsch leg. I used the upper pair as I could not get enough depth in the lower ones (this is probably due to the rear ram on the drill not closing fully). This pair also angles the coulter back slightly and is intended to reduce smearing by the back of the coulter in clay soils. That is not an issue here so I will change holes and straighten the coulter.

I will also build up the excess wear above the tungsten tile on the front of the coulter and hard-face this.

As Warksfarmer, says they will DD well into light soils. I have DD sown some covers in heavier ground that is normally ploughed and it's okay but would need cultivation first for cash crops for at least a few years.
Angle would possibly make sense🤷‍♀️. Falling off not really explained unless they are breaking at the hole due to wear??
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
Have you any experience of the older gen (like mine) or the dutch with the rolled pin holding in?
Single shot leaves very wide crop spacing? Would you use for sp barley for example?
i've used dutch amd metcalf and some i designed myself

these nos are definitely better (on my soils certainly)

i would drill anything on 250mm no problem (and do) unless i had black-grass problems maybe
 

Case140

Member
i've used dutch amd metcalf and some i designed myself

these nos are definitely better (on my soils certainly)

i would drill anything on 250mm no problem (and do) unless i had black-grass problems maybe
Do you use any other tip besides 1"? Dutch v Vos what did you find better please?
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
Do you use any other tip besides 1"? Dutch v Vos what did you find better please?
VOS by miles, wear less, block less, disturb less, break less and crops seem more even behind them

i have a set of triple shot 75mm and double shot 19mm - prefer the 19mms

I like the versatility of chaging and placing fert when required
 

Case140

Member
VOS by miles, wear less, block less, disturb less, break less and crops seem more even behind them

i have a set of triple shot 75mm and double shot 19mm - prefer the 19mms
Thanks. Just wondering what you found better about vos? Better establishment or last better, easier change .......
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
Thanks. Just wondering what you found better about vos? Better establishment or last better, easier change .......
better establishment and more user friendly (changing and less blockages)

if it wasn't for the 19mm we wouldn’t have had much wheat this year - was exceptional in the wet
 

Case140

Member
better establishment and more user friendly (changing and less blockages)

if it wasn't for the 19mm we wouldn’t have had much wheat this year - was exceptional in the wet
Thanks. Is it the hld 1000 holder you are using? Just looking at lischman website there seems to be a few types. I use liquid so thinking hld 1000 with pipe down back. Doubleshoot seed to side and fert down middle. Sound about right? Do you place fert and if using doubleshot how deep below seed do you find best?
 

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