BPS removal, HOW will you replace yours??

[farmerm]

Stats be made any way to prove any point. Pretty much meaningless.

It was taken from a DEFRA government stat, what point do you suppose DEFRA were trying to prove? DEFRA surely want to prove UK farmers do not need subsidies to be viable. If DEFRA were trying to make some point with these stats one can only conclude that the reality must actually be even worse!

Chapter 3: Farming income

www.gov.uk

From the same figures not only did 29% of farms produce a net farm income less than zero, over 60% of farms generated a net farm income less than an average UK wage.... and this I believe is with BPS included?

 

[Steevo]

It was taken from a DEFRA government stat, what point do you suppose DEFRA were trying to prove? DEFRA surely want to prove UK farmers do not need subsidies to be viable. If DEFRA were trying to make some point with these stats one can only conclude that the reality must actually be even worse!

Chapter 3: Farming income

www.gov.uk

From the same figures not only did 29% of farms produce a net farm income less than zero, over 60% of farms generated a net farm income less than an average UK wage.... and this I believe is with BPS included?


View attachment 1110560

By “net farm income” I assume they mean “profit”. I wish they would use that accepted word instead.

I dislike the use of alternative terminology by government bodies. The “Total Income From Farming” figures are a poorly worded stat for example.

 

[Bossfarmer]

What has Scotland announced about payments @Bossfarmer ?

The BPS is being phased out over several years but in Scotland your still getting full payments?

new scheme to come out in 2026 loosely based on what the eu is doing, full bps until then

 

[britishblue]

A few years ago our ex accountancy firm with over 450 clients in the North East of England told me over 90% of their farmer clients lost money without the subsidy payment!

 

[Bossfarmer]

Doesn't matter if we've had since 23rd June 1916 to prepare, what exactly is this preparation you talk of for us in the hills? Do we tell our customers we need more for our stock or tell our suppliers we need their products for less. Other than farming sheep and tourists our options are very limited. Hate the term "farm diversification" no other industry has to diversify into another to make ends meet, to me this isn't preparing for end of bps this would be starting a new business

well put regarding diversification

 

[jackrussell101]

A few years ago our ex accountancy firm with over 450 clients in the North East of England told me over 90% of their farmer clients lost money without the subsidy payment!

Our farm consultant says the same is true today, can't see how the Conservatives are going to win a general election without the support of the rural vote. One of the plus points to the high inflation we are currently experiencing is that its making SFI/ELMS payments look like a joke

 

[Bossfarmer]

What are you basing that statement on?

facts, who else in fife will take your milk? sainsburies is a closed shop, you have to be in the sw to get your pick or at least further west than fife

 

[Jackov Altraids]

It was taken from a DEFRA government stat, what point do you suppose DEFRA were trying to prove? DEFRA surely want to prove UK farmers do not need subsidies to be viable. If DEFRA were trying to make some point with these stats one can only conclude that the reality must actually be even worse!

Chapter 3: Farming income

www.gov.uk

From the same figures not only did 29% of farms produce a net farm income less than zero, over 60% of farms generated a net farm income less than an average UK wage.... and this I believe is with BPS included?


View attachment 1110560

These figures only tell half the story.
My accounts always look better in a bad year. I don't spend a penny extra than necessary and usually end up with a bit of profit.
On a good year I try to get as much maintenance, improvements and investment done as possible and end up with no profit.

I rather suspect UK ag is split between those living off investments made decades ago that can't afford fresh investment
and
those who have invested heavily and need to keep driving turnover to stay on the merry-go-round.

I hope I'm wrong as that isn't good.

 

[farmerm]

These figures only tell half the story.
My accounts always look better in a bad year. I don't spend a penny extra than necessary and usually end up with a bit of profit.
On a good year I try to get as much maintenance, improvements and investment done as possible and end up with no profit.

I rather suspect UK ag is split between those living off investments made decades ago that can't afford fresh investment
and
those who have invested heavily and need to keep driving turnover to stay on the merry-go-round.

I hope I'm wrong as that isn't good.

I agree. Farming incomes are cyclic with good and bad years. A one year snapshot tells a partial story but I think you will find 2021 wasn't a low blip but fairly consistent with a much wider time frame. If I end up with no profit I have nothing to live off... aim of the game is to keep below the higher rate threshold when one has one of those rare good years.

 

[Hilly]

BPS is nothing to veg growers, do the maths

1200 acre of region 1 you should be a multi millionaire by now and not nees worry about subsidy .

 

[Briar]

Farming north of Stonehaven, we made decisions several years ago on how we "farm" or should I say gradually evolve our farming operation. It's still work in progress and requires a different mindset to what we were taught in college or brought up with. Especially with the hike in machinery and input prices and the lack of suitable staff, issues that effect us all and are not likely to disappear soon.
The options mooted above are a bit restricted and reality requires a much more adventurous approach and with each farm being unique with different available skills or opportunities. These options suggested could already be described as outdated.

Renewables no longer receive the support they once did, but you may offset your energy bills.
By increasing livestock numbers or area of cereals are you going to increase your actual profitability with the assets you already have, if so why has it taken the incentive of BPS removal to make you take action? Or is it reason to justify some new kit?

Was advised Glamping's boom was due solely on the recent travel restrictions and would fade a bit as these were eased as folk were desperate for some sun and cheap booze abroad.

Our operation now includes a wind turbine, biomass heating, equestrian diversification and the move to organic farming with greater use of contractors, other peoples livestock and fewer full time staff. Each enterprise constantly evolves and more will be added as and when appropriate. There may or may not be a single stand alone action/enterprise available to you as a holy grail, but a number that may need tweaked to evolve as needed.

We as farmers need to think differently and /or provide something that the customer actually wants if we are to survive.

But surely that's where the fun lies?

 

[Courier]

Our farm consultant says the same is true today, can't see how the Conservatives are going to win a general election without the support of the rural vote. One of the plus points to the high inflation we are currently experiencing is that its making SFI/ELMS payments look like a joke

And why would any farmer want this current self serving cabal to win another GE ?

 

[Tarw Coch]

facts, who else in fife will take your milk? sainsburies is a closed shop, you have to be in the sw to get your pick or at least further west than fife

Erm, I don’t think anyone gets to “pick” a sainsburys or any other aligned milk contract for that matter however you do need to be in the right place as in with the right milk buyer to get one, but being with the right milk buyer doesn’t mean you’ll get one, there’s still an element of “luck” in that.

 

[Hilly]

We all mostly all relying upon one another really , anyone thinking they can manage without might get a nasty surprise as things adapt to change ….

 

[le bon paysan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1655474325170843649

This rule is used in France as well. Always makes me laugh when Brexiteers say "but foods more expensive in the EU". We get paid more for our produce as well. And why do UK farmers want cheap food? Do you enjoy being shafted?

 

[Courier]

facts, who else in fife will take your milk? sainsburies is a closed shop, you have to be in the sw to get your pick or at least further west than fife

When milk could be produced to Cravendale standards and packed in Poland (https://www.arla.pl/) and arrive on UK supermarket shelves with 18 days shelf life left then UK milk producers place begins to look even more precarious.

 

[farmerm]

And why would any farmer want this current self serving cabal to win another GE ?

Well as ridiculously unbelievable as it is, the alternative still give the impression they would be worse!

 

[unlacedgecko]

facts, who else in fife will take your milk? sainsburies is a closed shop, you have to be in the sw to get your pick or at least further west than fife

I meant with regard to haulage profits.

 

[Grass And Grain]

We all mostly all relying upon one another really , anyone thinking they can manage without might get a nasty surprise as things adapt to change ….

Absolutely. Lot of feed wheat and barley grow in UK. Also straw purchased by livestock farmers, and livestock farmers wanting to rent in some maize ground from the arable guys, so arable man gets his rent and livestock farmer gets the maize ground they require.

Cereal farmers are seeing the pig/poultry demand destruction and hence falling grain prices. We need each other.

Likely be a bumpy ride.

This rule is used in France as well. Always makes me laugh when Brexiteers say "but foods more expensive in the EU". We get paid more for our produce as well. And why do UK farmers want cheap food? Do you enjoy being shafted?

That's a new one on me. I don't think UK farmers do want cheap food do they?

I'd like farm-gate prices to be a high enough so it leaves a decent farm profit.

 

[le bon paysan]

Absolutely. Lot of feed wheat and barley grow in UK. Also straw purchased by livestock farmers, and livestock farmers wanting to rent in some maize ground from the arable guys, so arable man gets his rent and livestock farmer gets the maize ground they require.

Cereal farmers are seeing the pig/poultry demand destruction and hence falling grain prices. We need each other.

Likely be a bumpy ride.


That's a new one on me. I don't think UK farmers do want cheap food do they?

I'd like farm-gate prices to be a high enough so it leaves a decent farm profit.

Oh you should get on the Brexit thread. One of the first things you get is "but you pay more for your food". usually countered by "but we pay less for our electric"