By what percentage have cover crops increased the bottom line of your business?

[Clive]

Thanks for all your posts, which yet again show that their are no set rules in how individuals wish to run their farms ( thank goodness for that otherwise we would be like a communist state)!!!
One thing I will say is do those of you who plant cover crops with your drill take in to account the increased wear on the drill due to covering more ha’s with your drill, the same goes for wear on the rolls and extra hours on the tractors , and overtime wages of staff unless they are salaried, also extra diesel usage.

Of course the cost of the drilling operation / labour/ fuel etc os costed

it faily inconsequential vs the cost of running a 6m cultivation train behind a 600hp tractor for 700hrs a year however

Overall notill cut circa 200k per year from my fixed costs in finance, depreciation, labour, wear meral and fuel and almost halved my capital required ............ that pays for a lot of cover crop drilling

 

[simonk88]

We are on strong Wold down to Marsh clay. We sow our cover crops using a 9m Sumo DTS, this allows the leading tine to remove any potential compaction. We don't really use a subsoiler anymore? Haven't ploughed for 3 years, even for vining peas. The heavy land responds quicker to lower cultivations, as @Clive pointed out. We can run 6000ac of arable across 70 miles, a suckler herd operation and 2500ac of contract drilling with 6 full time guys, as well as a few other enterprises, with all operations in house. We could not do this with a traditional cultivation set up. We do graze off some of the covers with sheep, but some of the heaviest land, or the clay over peat, the cover crops are sprayed off earlier, the green material all goes back into the soil and has done its job of protecting the surface against the worst of the winter weather. Some of our lighter land is 1.5-1.9% OM, it's going to take sometime to build that up, and we can't get enough muck to do much good on a reasonable area. Digestate or compost isn't available round here.

 

[Clive]

We are on strong Wold down to Marsh clay. We sow our cover crops using a 9m Sumo DTS, this allows the leading tine to remove any potential compaction. We don't really use a subsoiler anymore? Haven't ploughed for 3 years, even for vining peas. The heavy land responds quicker to lower cultivations, as @Clive pointed out. We can run 6000ac of arable across 70 miles, a suckler herd operation and 2500ac of contract drilling with 6 full time guys, as well as a few other enterprises, with all operations in house. We could not do this with a traditional cultivation set up. We do graze off some of the covers with sheep, but some of the heaviest land, or the clay over peat, the cover crops are sprayed off earlier, the green material all goes back into the soil and has done its job of protecting the surface against the worst of the winter weather. Some of our lighter land is 1.5-1.9% OM, it's going to take sometime to build that up, and we can't get enough muck to do much good on a reasonable area. Digestate or compost isn't available round here.

yet some will still say it can't be done / is pointless

 

[JonL]

We are on strong Wold down to Marsh clay. We sow our cover crops using a 9m Sumo DTS, this allows the leading tine to remove any potential compaction. We don't really use a subsoiler anymore? Haven't ploughed for 3 years, even for vining peas. The heavy land responds quicker to lower cultivations, as @Clive pointed out. We can run 6000ac of arable across 70 miles, a suckler herd operation and 2500ac of contract drilling with 6 full time guys, as well as a few other enterprises, with all operations in house. We could not do this with a traditional cultivation set up. We do graze off some of the covers with sheep, but some of the heaviest land, or the clay over peat, the cover crops are sprayed off earlier, the green material all goes back into the soil and has done its job of protecting the surface against the worst of the winter weather. Some of our lighter land is 1.5-1.9% OM, it's going to take sometime to build that up, and we can't get enough muck to do much good on a reasonable area. Digestate or compost isn't available round here.

do you drill into covers with your DTS?

 

[bankrupt]

yet some will still say it can't be done

Can't be done here - rainfall too high.

 

[Clive]

Can't be done here - rainfall too high.

all the more reason to get a proper (not artificial) soil structure

 

[bankrupt]

all the more reason to get a proper (not artificial) soil structure

Spent the best part of two decades experimenting here, in the 70s and 80s, with lots of help from the enthusiasts at Letcombe, amongst many others, but we were eventually all defeated by the rainfall.

Letcombe Laboratory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[4course]

Catch crops, cover crops or any other crops that aren’t taken to harvest, fed or grazed are a conscious easing exercise because either you, or previous generations haven’t farmed with livestock, manures or a proper rotation! Hence having to try and repair damage that shouldn’t have happened in the first place. Basically this is the lazy/easiest way to try and fix the problem!!

see where your coming from but your analysis does not take into account those taking over new land to them , its a brave person who can forego immediate cash flow whislt at the same time trying to improve the soil for the longer term ive found a catch/cover crop offers a whole string of benefits but they take time to repay , though that probably explains my monicker though that could well be 3 field

 

[Lincsman]

We are on strong Wold down to Marsh clay. We sow our cover crops using a 9m Sumo DTS, this allows the leading tine to remove any potential compaction. We don't really use a subsoiler anymore? Haven't ploughed for 3 years, even for vining peas. The heavy land responds quicker to lower cultivations, as @Clive pointed out. We can run 6000ac of arable across 70 miles, a suckler herd operation and 2500ac of contract drilling with 6 full time guys, as well as a few other enterprises, with all operations in house. We could not do this with a traditional cultivation set up. We do graze off some of the covers with sheep, but some of the heaviest land, or the clay over peat, the cover crops are sprayed off earlier, the green material all goes back into the soil and has done its job of protecting the surface against the worst of the winter weather. Some of our lighter land is 1.5-1.9% OM, it's going to take sometime to build that up, and we can't get enough muck to do much good on a reasonable area. Digestate or compost isn't available round here.

I will let you have a field rent free and I take the BPS for you to show me how it works. It is at the side of a disused clay pit and is approx 10' below a high tide, classed as Marine alluvium. It will yield 4t/ acre if it gets well subsoiled in a dry autumn and winter isnt too wet, if you leave it stubble over winter the cracks seal really tight and floods. A grass field next door was reseeded last year via a direct drill but flooding killed it all along with a spring sown crop, its 3rd reseed in june has now established.

Would you like a go?

 

[4course]

Spent the best part of two decades experimenting here, in the 70s and 80s, with lots of help from the enthusiasts at Letcombe, amongst many others, but we were eventually all defeated by the rain

you are still going they arent tells a story and yet now we are encouraged to revisit

 

[Clive]

Spent the best part of two decades experimenting here, in the 70s and 80s, with lots of help from the enthusiasts at Letcombe, amongst many others, but we were eventually all defeated by the rainfall.

Letcombe Laboratory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

whats you annual rainfall ? there ate guys successful no tilling in Scotland and Norway / Denmark etc

 

[average farmer]

We are on strong Wold down to Marsh clay. We sow our cover crops using a 9m Sumo DTS, this allows the leading tine to remove any potential compaction. We don't really use a subsoiler anymore? Haven't ploughed for 3 years, even for vining peas. The heavy land responds quicker to lower cultivations, as @Clive pointed out. We can run 6000ac of arable across 70 miles, a suckler herd operation and 2500ac of contract drilling with 6 full time guys, as well as a few other enterprises, with all operations in house. We could not do this with a traditional cultivation set up. We do graze off some of the covers with sheep, but some of the heaviest land, or the clay over peat, the cover crops are sprayed off earlier, the green material all goes back into the soil and has done its job of protecting the surface against the worst of the winter weather. Some of our lighter land is 1.5-1.9% OM, it's going to take sometime to build that up, and we can't get enough muck to do much good on a reasonable area. Digestate or compost isn't available round here.

Interesting you say the stronger stuff responds quicker than the lighter. i have often thought how our stronger stuff would work better with nothing done to it , it seems to create a lovely crum on top just by being exposed to the weather but work wet and get drying weather after and it's impossible to do anything with. We have a farm 3 miles away and it works easier but doesn't weather in the same way but will work into a seed bed with metal .

 

[Banana Bar]

Thanks for all your posts, which yet again show that their are no set rules in how individuals wish to run their farms ( thank goodness for that otherwise we would be like a communist state)!!!
One thing I will say is do those of you who plant cover crops with your drill take in to account the increased wear on the drill due to covering more ha’s with your drill, the same goes for wear on the rolls and extra hours on the tractors , and overtime wages of staff unless they are salaried, also extra diesel usage.

Surely everybody factors this in?

 

[Pilatus]

Surely everybody factors this in?

I certainly hope so but I do wonder!!

 

[No wot]

covercrops don’t suit all soil types in over winter timings I agree, that doesn’t mean they have no place on heavier soils though

slugs are a symptom of poor soil health and crap rotation, they are no longer a problem I have to deal with yet I used to use pellets by the truck load

I see no argument for a plough these days on any soil type though other than in veg production, in fact heavier soils benefit the most in cost saving as they are the most expensive and power hungry to cultivate. I strongly suspect ELMS will be the end for the plough on combinable crop farms, it will simply become uneconomical (already is truth be told)

soil type is not most farmers problem, knowledge is. Sucess is not as easy as simply just stopping cultivations unfortunately. Notill does not work if that’s all you change. Those that fail will blame anything but themselves, that’s, understandable, human nature

A very well known notil farmer has a block of very heavy ground that I used to pass regularly and I could see hare's running around in it in June most yrs it was so poor and thin , I believe he's giving that ground up now , it had been notilled for getting on 20yrs so its had a good chance to get heavy soil , " conditioned ", I'd say, be interesting to see how it looks with the new tenant

 

[Clive]

A very well uk notil farmer has a block of very heavy ground that I used to pass regularly and I could see hare's running around in it in June most yrs it was so poor and thin , I believe he's giving that ground up now , it had been notilled for getting on 20yrs so its had a good chance to get heavy soil , " conditioned ", I'd say, be interesting to see how it looks with the new tenant

“well known” doesn't always mean good !

 

[bankrupt]

whats you annual rainfall ?

Average is about 1300mm - but over the years there's been a low of 650 and a high of 1950

 

[Clive]

Average is about 1300mm - but over the years there's been a low of 650 and a high of 1950

that is s lot - didn’t think anywhere other than Scotland got quite that much

 

[Stuart J]

Is anyone who doesn’t grow them actually “farming”. Or are they running synthetic input dependant mining operations dressed up as farms ?

It may come as a surprise, but not everyones farming system needs cover crops.
I build fertility using livestock.

 

[Stuart J]

whats you annual rainfall ? there ate guys successful no tilling in Scotland and Norway / Denmark etc

There is wide variations in rainfall in Scotland from West to East.