Claydon or Simtech

[Ninjago]

I fancy changing from my existing min till (was McConnell discaerator, now Lemlen karat), power harrow combination drill system to one of the above. My soils are a red clayey loam over clay with zero stone content. They are not what you call free draining! I only grow wheat and oilseed rape and second,third or even fourth wheats are no problem with my soils combined with poultry layers manure applied every year. Always my main problem is the ability to travel, not just this autumn but even in the spring with my sprayer. Any thoughts much appreciated.

 

[D14]

I fancy changing from my existing min till (was McConnell discaerator, now Lemlen karat), power harrow combination drill system to one of the above. My soils are a red clayey loam over clay with zero stone content. They are not what you call free draining! I only grow wheat and oilseed rape and second,third or even fourth wheats are no problem with my soils combined with poultry layers manure applied every year. Always my main problem is the ability to travel, not just this autumn but even in the spring with my sprayer. Any thoughts much appreciated.

Neither, get a JD 750 to go direct no till then you won't have travelling problems after a couple of years as the land will firm up naturally.

 

[Ninjago]

Neither, get a JD 750 to go direct no till then you won't have travelling problems after a couple of years as the land will firm up naturally.

That's the holy grail, but I don't know if it's too big of a jump and that's why i am considering Claydon or Simtech. Stepping stones and all that. But why do some farmers seem contented to stick with the Claydon or Simtech?

 

[Deutzdx3]

Go for a horsch co or sprinter. Very good, reliable and well built. @Clive will testify just how versatile they are. What ever you choose all the best with it. [emoji106]

 

[Sprayer 1]

I went for the simtech 4 years ago just because they are simple to use and I didn't want to buy a bigger tractor, my biggest is 150hp. It was a big step in one go and the second year when it was a wet autumn I was wishing I had something like the leading tine of a claydon to drain the seed channel. My soil has more structure now and on neighbouring farms combines were getting stuck this year but didn't make a mark with us. Simtech are pretty good at seeding most things from grass, turnips to beans, if like me you need one drill to do all jobs. Hope this helps.

 

[Ninjago]

I went for the simtech 4 years ago just because they are simple to use and I didn't want to buy a bigger tractor, my biggest is 150hp. It was a big step in one go and the second year when it was a wet autumn I was wishing I had something like the leading tine of a claydon to drain the seed channel. My soil has more structure now and on neighbouring farms combines were getting stuck this year but didn't make a mark with us. Simtech are pretty good at seeding most things from grass, turnips to beans, if like me you need one drill to do all jobs. Hope this helps.

With this wet autumn we are having, do you wish you had a leading tine on your drill now or has the soil structure improved so now not relevant?

 

[HarryB97]

I would go for the Claydon, definitley one of the most versatile drills on the market. Leading tine or disc options which are easily changed, numerous seed coulter options, and several harrow/board options. It's a good stepping stone for you, your mindset and your soil

 

[Sprayer 1]

Today is the first time I have drilled, being in the north west it never dried out completely from mid June rains. The restriction with the simtech is that if it is sticky the spring roller clogs up , and it is a sod of a job to clean out, so I now tend to wait till it's dry on top. The drainage tine would be good if it was to rain a lot from now till tillering
to keep the roots drier.

 

[juke]

I would choose the Claydon, but the lack of rotation would worry me from a weed point of view regardless of drill choice.

 

[eagleye]

another vote for claydon, we have one 4 years and it has managed well in the damp autumn drilling, most pre-ems on as ground is firm. versitile simple drill well made, few faults

 

[rob1]

I have had both, no issues with either, claydon needed a lot more power with the front tine in on our soil, thee simtech moves far less soil, is simple and in our situation better for drilling grass, the springflex can block if its sticky but some remove some of it to help but personally if it blocks then I give up drilling as IMVHO its too wet

 

[Michael S]

I'm pretty sure a lot more Claydons have been sold than Simtechs. In my opinion they are not strictly directly comparable but both good drills. The Claydon is a strip till drill that if you are prepared to spend the money can be changed from a leading tine to a leading disc and from a relatively wide row spacing band coulter to a twin coulter. The Simtech is a no-till drill with a row of trash cutting discs in front of winged tine coulters at an only slightly wider coulter spacing than conventional drills. The points are the special part of the Simtech, the vertical cutting part is only 12mm wide and the wings about 40mm wide.

I have just done my second autumn with a 4m Simtech so I will try to give you my thoughts. The 4m has 22 coulters, giving approximately 18cm row spacing in three rows, with the leading discs at the front and a Springflex roller with a heavy chain as a harrow at the back. Part of the attraction to me is the simplicity of the drill which in turn leads to a relatively low purchase price. I decided I wanted a no-till drill rather than a strip till drill because I have over 25 years experience of using Moore drills for no-till, albeit in a management tool way rather than an out and out no-till way. My experience of drilling wheat after peas, OSR and stripped linseed has generally been good but trying to drill through chopped wheat straw hasn't been at all successful regardless of the crop being sown. I also wanted to drill into herbage seed stubble which is usually hard and relatively dry, so again difficult to push a disc into.

I have used the Simtech to drill companion cropped OSR and wheat in autumn 2018 and 2019 and grass in autumn 2019. Autumn 2018 was a breeze and the choice to go no-till looked clever when moisture was at premium. OSR drilled into chopped wheat straw with approximately 9 inch tall stubble went well, the only problem occurred where we left some stubble about 12 inches tall which wouldn't go through the drill. Moving onto wheat drilling all went well although drilling into herbage seed stubble was an act of faith, the going was tough, slot closure a little indifferent and I set the drill too deep with hindsight. Also I have a friend who puts wheat in after herbage seed with a Cross Slot who never feels happy with those wheat crops. Whilst the OSR always looked well enough along with wheat after wheat, peas and OSR, but the wheat after grass looked poor all year until just a few weeks before harvest when it suddenly looked like the surrounding conventionally established crops. Yields were on a par with local conventionally established crops.

Autumn 2019 started off pretty similar to 2018 and I was largely pleased with the OSR establishment and the moisture preservation of the no-till establishment. I then went on to drill a grass crop into chopped wheat straw. In this case I think I should have cultivated with a couple of passes with a Carrier and drilled with the Moore or removed the straw and probably still use the Moore. Whilst for wheat and OSR drilling depth isn't that critical grass needs to be shallower than 1cm. As a rigid frame tine drill depth is a bit by the law of averages and whilst the grass is good in places, hopefully good enough to keep, establishment by tillage and the Moore has been much more successful. Finally when it came to wheat drilling I started on 30th September in the herbage seed stubbles I intended to leave until last when they were wet enough, and that week did ex-OSR and second wheat, straw removed, cover crop sown that didn't really grow and 34t/ha of pig FYM applied. The following Thursday I managed to drill the wheat after peas. All the crops except the ex-peas were rolled although with hindsight this was only the just right decision, if the Avadex spreader wasn't on the rolls I would say it was wrong as in places emergence has been restricted by the consolidation achieved.

The last 50ha on another farm were more challenging, 25ha each ex-OSR and second wheat which again had a reluctant cover crop sown in it. Although there isn't a rain gauge there it was wetter there pre-drilling. After a couple of false starts when it was too wet for the roller I read the thread on here about the Simtech roller and removing half the rings. I did this and managed the ex-OSR land before yet more rain. After another couple of days I managed to get the second wheat drilled by using the draft control on the tractor to reduce the pressure on the rear roller. A slightly anxious wait for the last crops to emerge.

In summary the Simtech is a simple no-till drill that has a relatively low purchase price and is easy to use. In my experience it works well for drilling wheat and OSR but I still have to perfect the technique for grass drilling whether it be setting the drill shallower or maybe not rolling after drilling grass to deliberately leave the slot open? From this year's experience I would say it will work in wetter conditions than most no-till drills and perhaps without the rear roller in work it could be persuaded to work in even wetter conditions, although that might not necessarily be a good thing? From last year's experience it will draw into rock hard ground. I have the extended hopper so can comfortably get a tonne of wheat in and at the recommended forward speed of 8km/hr in decent size fields (10-20ha) I can drill wheat at a little over 2ha/hr. When the weather was against me I have gone faster when the going was soft enough, up to 12km/hr. As a rule of thumb the harder the ground is the slower you need to go.

Another point of note is there are two positions for the front discs, they are fitted in the rear position on delivery but can be moved forward, about 80mm I think, to provide more clearance between them and the front row of tines. It doesn't look like a a lot of difference but does seem to help, however of the three tractors I have had the drill on, Fastrac 155-65, Fendt 724 and Valtra T174, only on Valtra does the frame not hit the rear tyres with the discs in the front position. The Fastrac is powerful enough most of the time and the Fendt and Valtra always adequate. The rear chain will drag loose soil about to help close the slot. The rings on the roller run between the rows.

As regards soil movement whilst the Simtech possibly moves a little more soil than a disc drill I think it looks worse than it is because it doesn't put all the soil back where it came from, some tilth inevitably gets scattered between the rows.

To finish with problems encountered, these are relatively minor. A few of the front tungsten tiles have come off the points which Simtech have been good about replacing. In hard going the flexible seed tubes can get shaken off the coulters, especially on the middle row of tines that occasionally hit the frame despite shortening the metal seed tubes on the coulters, I just keep an eye on them. Occasionally the tine clamps break and the replacements supplied are apparently stronger.

Overall I remain happy with my choice. I hope I haven't waffled on too much. Look at my Twitter account for pictures, there are a few crop pictures on direct drilling picture thread here too.

 

[Brisel]

I fancy changing from my existing min till (was McConnell discaerator, now Lemlen karat), power harrow combination drill system to one of the above. My soils are a red clayey loam over clay with zero stone content. They are not what you call free draining! I only grow wheat and oilseed rape and second,third or even fourth wheats are no problem with my soils combined with poultry layers manure applied every year. Always my main problem is the ability to travel, not just this autumn but even in the spring with my sprayer. Any thoughts much appreciated.

Another happy Claydon user here. I wouldn't have that many wheats in my rotation and with less cultivation from either drill option you'll need stale seedbeds to keep the weeds down. Both drills work well in stale seedbeds if you scratch the top and let it green up. Avoid working deeply if you are going Claydon. The few depth wheels means the drill sinks into soft ground. I can't speak for the Simtech. Beware of compaction from spreaders, though after a couple of years of either drill the ground will carry weight better.

 

[pear]

I'm pretty sure a lot more Claydons have been sold than Simtechs. In my opinion they are not strictly directly comparable but both good drills. The Claydon is a strip till drill that if you are prepared to spend the money can be changed from a leading tine to a leading disc and from a relatively wide row spacing band coulter to a twin coulter. The Simtech is a no-till drill with a row of trash cutting discs in front of winged tine coulters at an only slightly wider coulter spacing than conventional drills. The points are the special part of the Simtech, the vertical cutting part is only 12mm wide and the wings about 40mm wide.

I have just done my second autumn with a 4m Simtech so I will try to give you my thoughts. The 4m has 22 coulters, giving approximately 18cm row spacing in three rows, with the leading discs at the front and a Springflex roller with a heavy chain as a harrow at the back. Part of the attraction to me is the simplicity of the drill which in turn leads to a relatively low purchase price. I decided I wanted a no-till drill rather than a strip till drill because I have over 25 years experience of using Moore drills for no-till, albeit in a management tool way rather than an out and out no-till way. My experience of drilling wheat after peas, OSR and stripped linseed has generally been good but trying to drill through chopped wheat straw hasn't been at all successful regardless of the crop being sown. I also wanted to drill into herbage seed stubble which is usually hard and relatively dry, so again difficult to push a disc into.

I have used the Simtech to drill companion cropped OSR and wheat in autumn 2018 and 2019 and grass in autumn 2019. Autumn 2018 was a breeze and the choice to go no-till looked clever when moisture was at premium. OSR drilled into chopped wheat straw with approximately 9 inch tall stubble went well, the only problem occurred where we left some stubble about 12 inches tall which wouldn't go through the drill. Moving onto wheat drilling all went well although drilling into herbage seed stubble was an act of faith, the going was tough, slot closure a little indifferent and I set the drill too deep with hindsight. Also I have a friend who puts wheat in after herbage seed with a Cross Slot who never feels happy with those wheat crops. Whilst the OSR always looked well enough along with wheat after wheat, peas and OSR, but the wheat after grass looked poor all year until just a few weeks before harvest when it suddenly looked like the surrounding conventionally established crops. Yields were on a par with local conventionally established crops.

Autumn 2019 started off pretty similar to 2018 and I was largely pleased with the OSR establishment and the moisture preservation of the no-till establishment. I then went on to drill a grass crop into chopped wheat straw. In this case I think I should have cultivated with a couple of passes with a Carrier and drilled with the Moore or removed the straw and probably still use the Moore. Whilst for wheat and OSR drilling depth isn't that critical grass needs to be shallower than 1cm. As a rigid frame tine drill depth is a bit by the law of averages and whilst the grass is good in places, hopefully good enough to keep, establishment by tillage and the Moore has been much more successful. Finally when it came to wheat drilling I started on 30th September in the herbage seed stubbles I intended to leave until last when they were wet enough, and that week did ex-OSR and second wheat, straw removed, cover crop sown that didn't really grow and 34t/ha of pig FYM applied. The following Thursday I managed to drill the wheat after peas. All the crops except the ex-peas were rolled although with hindsight this was only the just right decision, if the Avadex spreader wasn't on the rolls I would say it was wrong as in places emergence has been restricted by the consolidation achieved.

The last 50ha on another farm were more challenging, 25ha each ex-OSR and second wheat which again had a reluctant cover crop sown in it. Although there isn't a rain gauge there it was wetter there pre-drilling. After a couple of false starts when it was too wet for the roller I read the thread on here about the Simtech roller and removing half the rings. I did this and managed the ex-OSR land before yet more rain. After another couple of days I managed to get the second wheat drilled by using the draft control on the tractor to reduce the pressure on the rear roller. A slightly anxious wait for the last crops to emerge.

In summary the Simtech is a simple no-till drill that has a relatively low purchase price and is easy to use. In my experience it works well for drilling wheat and OSR but I still have to perfect the technique for grass drilling whether it be setting the drill shallower or maybe not rolling after drilling grass to deliberately leave the slot open? From this year's experience I would say it will work in wetter conditions than most no-till drills and perhaps without the rear roller in work it could be persuaded to work in even wetter conditions, although that might not necessarily be a good thing? From last year's experience it will draw into rock hard ground. I have the extended hopper so can comfortably get a tonne of wheat in and at the recommended forward speed of 8km/hr in decent size fields (10-20ha) I can drill wheat at a little over 2ha/hr. When the weather was against me I have gone faster when the going was soft enough, up to 12km/hr. As a rule of thumb the harder the ground is the slower you need to go.

Another point of note is there are two positions for the front discs, they are fitted in the rear position on delivery but can be moved forward, about 80mm I think, to provide more clearance between them and the front row of tines. It doesn't look like a a lot of difference but does seem to help, however of the three tractors I have had the drill on, Fastrac 155-65, Fendt 724 and Valtra T174, only on Valtra does the frame not hit the rear tyres with the discs in the front position. The Fastrac is powerful enough most of the time and the Fendt and Valtra always adequate. The rear chain will drag loose soil about to help close the slot. The rings on the roller run between the rows.

As regards soil movement whilst the Simtech possibly moves a little more soil than a disc drill I think it looks worse than it is because it doesn't put all the soil back where it came from, some tilth inevitably gets scattered between the rows.

To finish with problems encountered, these are relatively minor. A few of the front tungsten tiles have come off the points which Simtech have been good about replacing. In hard going the flexible seed tubes can get shaken off the coulters, especially on the middle row of tines that occasionally hit the frame despite shortening the metal seed tubes on the coulters, I just keep an eye on them. Occasionally the tine clamps break and the replacements supplied are apparently stronger.

Overall I remain happy with my choice. I hope I haven't waffled on too much. Look at my Twitter account for pictures, there are a few crop pictures on direct drilling picture thread here too.

@Michael S is your drill the 4m box drill or air drill? If the air drill, does it fold up or is it rigid?

I currently have a 3m box drill but looking to change to potentially a wider air drill (also looking at other manufacturer disc options, but don’t want to go off thread).

In reply to the OP, Simtech are good, well priced drills (even though the spring flex roller has tested my sanity this autumn!!) I bought mine originally for grass re seeds, but use it now for most drilling.

 

[Ninjago]

It concerns me about Simtech users complaining that the rear springflex roller blocks up in damp conditions. All power harrow drill combinations around here have solid packer rollers. Also the lack of a leading tine worries me on my poorly draining soils. Perhaps i should be looking at a Mzuri?

 

[Michael S]

It concerns me about Simtech users complaining that the rear springflex roller blocks up in damp conditions. All power harrow drill combinations around here have solid packer rollers. Also the lack of a leading tine worries me on my poorly draining soils. Perhaps i should be looking at a Mzuri?

I'm sure going to a strip till drill requires less faith than a no-till drill and I don't doubt for some that is the way to go. I have to say that the springflex roller has performed much better with in the wet with every other ring removed, but I still drilled 2/3rds of my wheat with all the rings on. Most would accept that this year's conditions are pretty exceptional. If your long term aim is to eventually go to a disc type no-till drill I'm sure that a Claydon or Simtech could remain as a backup for these wet years. The Mzuri in my experience does even more tillage and takes even more pulling than the Claydon.

 

[Michael S]

@Michael S is your drill the 4m box drill or air drill? If the air drill, does it fold up or is it rigid?

I currently have a 3m box drill but looking to change to potentially a wider air drill (also looking at other manufacturer disc options, but don’t want to go off thread).

In reply to the OP, Simtech are good, well priced drills (even though the spring flex roller has tested my sanity this autumn!!) I bought mine originally for grass re seeds, but use it now for most drilling.

My 4m is an air drill, but non folding. I think the smallest folding Simtech make is the 4.8m.

 

[Andrew K]

My 4m is an air drill, but non folding. I think the smallest folding Simtech make is the 4.8m.

How many horses would you need drilling beans at say 4" depth Michael? In stubble or moved ground.

 

[Michael S]

How many horses would you need drilling beans at say 4" depth Michael? In stubble or moved ground.

I am not really sure, the recommended method is to remove every other tine so that would significantly reduce the draft. My 175hp would probably manage fine, as ever with no-till the important thing is not to run out of traction.

 

[SilliamWhale]

How many horses would you need drilling beans at say 4" depth Michael? In stubble or moved ground.

Why drill beans so deep?