Cover crop costs ?

[Clive]

Lots of talk bout idea mixes etc but what about the economics ?

What do some of these seeds cost ?

There advantages are beyond question but how much is too much to spend on a crop your never going to harvest ?

Do cover crop have to be certified seed ? Or can we buy bird seed from pet shop wholesalers etc ? Could we all get organised to swap various seeds to make our own mixes as they will not be harvested or does that fall foul of the same rules that prevent farm saved seed being used between farms ?

Are royalties payable on crops that are never intended to harvest ?

 

[Great In Grass]

From the FERA site "Seed Certification is a quality assurance process which ensures that seeds are sufficiently pure, healthy, viable and correctly labelled. Seeds marketing is regulated and, for most agricultural and vegetable species, only seeds which have been certified may be sold."

 

[BSH]

Funnily enough I have just emailed a couple of suppliers to get some quotes. Will let you know how i get on.

 

[Great In Grass]

I'll quote. Just done 4T grass seed for a TFF member.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Lots of talk bout idea mixes etc but what about the economics ?

What do some of these seeds cost ?

There advantages are beyond question but how much is too much to spend on a crop your never going to harvest ?

Do cover crop have to be certified seed ? Or can we buy bird seed from pet shop wholesalers etc ? Could we all get organised to swap various seeds to make our own mixes as they will not be harvested or does that fall foul of the same rules that prevent farm saved seed being used between farms ?

Are royalties payable on crops that are never intended to harvest ?

I think the pedders route at the moment is the best value. Growing your own isn't a bad idea. There is no need for certified and no way would I be paying royalties on cover crops. Rule of thumb - you have to get them for under £20/acre preferably £10

 

[Dan Powell]

These are the rules:

http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/plants/seeds/seedCertification/guidesRegisters.cfm

As an experienced seed grower (cereals recently, herbage in distant past), and a small farmer with too much time on my hands compared to the bigger farms, I looked into growing some different things to sell for seed, e.g. forage rye, radishes etc, but there are so many hoops to jump through if you want to sell it as seed it's almost put me off. Will do some more digging.

I would say grow your own instead and use seed merchants or Pedders to supply the stuff you can't grow eg sunflowers etc.

 

[Andy26]

Article about cover crops here:

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/13/03/2012/131916/cover-crops-what-are-the-benefits.htm

 

[JD6920s]

Funnily enough I have just emailed a couple of suppliers to get some quotes. Will let you know how i get on.

Any luck with those quotes yet?

 

[Elmsted]

From the FERA site "Seed Certification is a quality assurance process which ensures that seeds are sufficiently pure, healthy, viable and correctly labelled. Seeds marketing is regulated and, for most agricultural and vegetable species, only seeds which have been certified may be sold."

So a mixture is difficult to be pure. And if not sold but given. Then why not swap X's grains for y's grains.

 

[BSH]

Any luck with those quotes yet?

Yes, I have been away for a few days, but when I have caught up with myself will post what I have.

 

[JD6920s]

Yes, I have been away for a few days, but when I have caught up with myself will post what I have.

Have you caught up yet?

 

[Jim Bullock]

Funnily enough I have just emailed a couple of suppliers to get some quotes. Will let you know how i get on.

If they are in France you will be lucky to get a reply...France seems to be on "Holiday" thoughout May...

 

[York]

I think the pedders route at the moment is the best value. Growing your own isn't a bad idea. There is no need for certified and no way would I be paying royalties on cover crops. Rule of thumb - you have to get them for under £20/acre preferably £10

Will,
when it's a law you better do it. Seed industry is doing mapping, cross checking with subs from EU for cover crop planting.
Over here a merchant got broke because he sold mustard as seed but wasn't certified and no royalties paid. what they did at court was: x ye3ars, how much mustard he sold (no difference if as seed or on seed) times royalties = bill.
What I heard is that it broke his neck, wasn't a back door merchant either. So I can only caution every one to be sure about the legal status he is working in.
Over here, for example, if you as farmer have over 10000 € sum in bills which you charge outside farming, or even sell some excess fertiliser to a neighbour, you have to have a commercial enterprise besides farming.
I have a case where a farmer has now to be very quite not to get caught. And believe me that the industry is looking for the people which are "disturbing" the market with low cost deals.
York-Th.

 

[York]

If they are in France you will be lucky to get a reply...France seems to be on "Holiday" thoughout May...

Jim,
wouldn't say just in May. ;-)
York-Th.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Will,
when it's a law you better do it. Seed industry is doing mapping, cross checking with subs from EU for cover crop planting.
Over here a merchant got broke because he sold mustard as seed but wasn't certified and no royalties paid. what they did at court was: x ye3ars, how much mustard he sold (no difference if as seed or on seed) times royalties = bill.
What I heard is that it broke his neck, wasn't a back door merchant either. So I can only caution every one to be sure about the legal status he is working in.
Over here, for example, if you as farmer have over 10000 € sum in bills which you charge outside farming, or even sell some excess fertiliser to a neighbour, you have to have a commercial enterprise besides farming.
I have a case where a farmer has now to be very quite not to get caught. And believe me that the industry is looking for the people which are "disturbing" the market with low cost deals.
York-Th.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I'd look for alternatives first because cover crops have to be cheap. So I wouldn't need certified seed from crops. I don't mean that I wouldn't pay a royalty if there was an obligation. I'd possibly make an exception if they bred a good black oat or daikon which did a job exceptionally well but I find the idea of paying royalties for crops you are not taking to yield or harvest absurd.

 

[York]

now over here we have had a lot of people saying: cover crop must be cheap. So when a supplier offered a mix, which looks the same but is 5+€/ha cheaper they went there. They had the same types of species in but the percentages where different.
We say now over here: Cover crops have to work! if it is 35€ or 25 €/ha it's not the point. And if you talk on certain mixes prior to spuds & beets even 70 €/ha is not expensive.
Own production: if you take the time etc. even a bought cover crop is "cheap". Have had a lot of farmers which started to grow their won. What they do is to grow oats and the "easy" parts on their won which are easy to grow. How do you want to grow a Phacelia where you have no legal chemicals for getting it weed free?
I'm not a advocate for the seed industry but like in so many cases if the farmers would concentrate on what they can do best and be as dedicated to this topic as they are in chasing the best deal a lot of them would be better of at the end of the year.
York-Th.

 

[SilliamWhale]

now over here we have had a lot of people saying: cover crop must be cheap. So when a supplier offered a mix, which looks the same but is 5+€/ha cheaper they went there. They had the same types of species in but the percentages where different.
We say now over here: Cover crops have to work! if it is 35€ or 25 €/ha it's not the point. And if you talk on certain mixes prior to spuds & beets even 70 €/ha is not expensive.
Own production: if you take the time etc. even a bought cover crop is "cheap". Have had a lot of farmers which started to grow their won. What they do is to grow oats and the "easy" parts on their won which are easy to grow. How do you want to grow a Phacelia where you have no legal chemicals for getting it weed free?
I'm not a advocate for the seed industry but like in so many cases if the farmers would concentrate on what they can do best and be as dedicated to this topic as they are in chasing the best deal a lot of them would be better of at the end of the year.
York-Th.

I hear what your saying but its not for me.

Phacelia may be expensive but I would look for another plant type that could occupy the ecological niche of Phacelia. I'm not saying the grower shouldn't be paid but I think to create a "seed industry" structure out of crops that are not taken to yield is not for me.

 

[Dan Powell]

Is it possible to grow and use seed from very old varieties that are too old to incur royalties...? Surely no royalties on wild phacelia etc.

 

[Dan Powell]

https://www.gov.uk/plant-breeders-rights

Anything older than 25 years looks fair game if you can get the seed?

 

[BSH]

Sorry not to have been back here earlier. Had mixed response. I had a disappointing response to my requests so haven't done much about it at the moment. I got a quote from Cotswold seeds that came to £57.10 an acre! I had a second quote from @greatingrass that was cheaper for the same sort of mix, but still came out at £34.57 an acre. One other seed supplier told me my mix wouldn't work and another gave me an alternative mix but no price. I bought some forage rye from @greatingrass as I wanted to secure some before it all went with a view of putting a mix together. The seed rate was quite high for my initial mix at 33.24kg per acre so I will need to revisit this. I have been procrastinating slightly because I wanted to see how well Spring Barley grew behind the forage rape I grazed last winter and then take on view on whether I would drop my intention of growing WOSR so that I could grow brassica based cover crops for the cattle instead. My feeling at the moment is that I will drop WOSR. I have been put off having seen some of my neighbours having to redrill fields with linseed because the WOSR failed and think that brassicas for winter cattle feed will be of greater benefit. Just a matter of working out a good mix that includes some non brassicas that is affordable. My mix included:
Stubble turnip
White millet
linseed
spring oats
vetch
sunflower
buckwheat
phacelia
hybrid kale rape
peas.