Cow down

[Irish NZ]

Stop spraying out all your dock plants, and feeding this monoculture diet.




tin hat on.

Dont have any docks to spray

 

[Stinker]

There was a very interesting talk at a conference I attended last year, showing injected calcium initially raised and then actually dropped blood calcium. I only inject now if they are on death's door and cannot swallow, otherwise I supplement orally.

Lots of people much cleverer than me don't believe phosphorus deficiency exists. Correct the calcium (orally) and the phosphorus will sort itself. I've measured lots of cows phosphorus level and I struggle to remember a low one. I've had more low in potassium. I suspect phosphorus is like homeopathy - give it and they get better - not that either is the actual cure.

I occasionally use phosphorus in cows, but not a lot. I wouldn't rush to in this case. I'd probably drench with a potassium containing rehydration solution, propylene glycol and perhaps give some steroid, depending on other signs and blood glucose/ketone levels.

Not sure I agree. At least on our farm. Never seen a calcium bolus get a cow up yet. Do give them as a preventative to older cows and are usually effective but they are no good on downer cows here. Maybe the cows are just to big and they need more.

 

[jimmer]

@howit

any progress ?

 

[farmerste]

Just to be clear is that standard 40% bottled calcium orally or a different product ?

i was wondering the same too, never heard of orally drenching with calcium till i read it on here

 

[rc mx110]

u

There was a very interesting talk at a conference I attended last year, showing injected calcium initially raised and then actually dropped blood calcium. I only inject now if they are on death's door and cannot swallow, otherwise I supplement orally.

Lots of people much cleverer than me don't believe phosphorus deficiency exists. Correct the calcium (orally) and the phosphorus will sort itself. I've measured lots of cows phosphorus level and I struggle to remember a low one. I've had more low in potassium. I suspect phosphorus is like homeopathy - give it and they get better - not that either is the actual cure.

I occasionally use phosphorus in cows, but not a lot. I wouldn't rush to in this case. I'd probably drench with a potassium containing rehydration solution, propylene glycol and perhaps give some steroid, depending on other signs and blood glucose/ketone levels.

do you mean IV injected or under skin? or both?

 

[Clay52]

u

do you mean IV injected or under skin? or both?

IV.

Under the skin often doesent work great with milk fever. I think its due to low calcium cows having poor circulation.

 

[Headless chicken]

i was wondering the same too, never heard of orally drenching with calcium till i read it on here

I was assuming people meant specific oral calcium not just injectable

 

[bovine]

The talk suggested a similar effect when given either IV or under the skin, but a greater rise and fall IV. The speaker was arguing against the idea of giving a bottle under the skin as prevention and it also causes a fall in calcium level.

Just to be clear is that standard 40% bottled calcium orally or a different product ?

Calcium drench or bolus. One containing calcium chloride for faster action and a slower release salt. I think I have tried them all and Bovikalc perform best. Some contain the 'wrong' kind of calcium. Oral calcium chloride will raise the blood level from low back to normal in 20 minutes, faster and has a greater effect that under the skin, without the disadvantages of it dropping back too low.

 

[Clay52]

The talk suggested a similar effect when given either IV or under the skin, but a greater rise and fall IV. The speaker was arguing against the idea of giving a bottle under the skin as prevention and it also causes a fall in calcium level.



Calcium drench or bolus. One containing calcium chloride for faster action and a slower release salt. I think I have tried them all and Bovikalc perform best. Some contain the 'wrong' kind of calcium. Oral calcium chloride will raise the blood level from low back to normal in 20 minutes, faster and has a greater effect that under the skin, without the disadvantages of it dropping back too low.

Ive always found if you can't get calcium IV oral calcium works much better than Under the skin. If I'm not around I get others to just give oral calcium just gotta be carful not to choke down cows.

The vet told me calcium under the skin can be very slow to get into the bloodstream due to the poor blood flow to extremities. The reason for the cold feeling milk fever cows have.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

I use this stuff

It's calcium chloride plus calcium sulfate with a bit of mag and other bits all soaked in ketol

I only use it as a preventative measure. All middle age cows get half a tube all old girls get a whole one. We had very few clinical milk fever cases last year but when we do they get an IV bottle straight away.

 

[Clay52]

I use this stuff
View attachment 464018
It's calcium chloride plus calcium sulfate with a bit of mag and other bits all soaked in ketol

I only use it as a preventative measure. All middle age cows get half a tube all old girls get a whole one. We had very few clinical milk fever cases last year but when we do they get an IV bottle straight away.

When do you give it as a preventative?

I go wth the theory that cows when looked after properly before calving shouldn't get milk fever. If I need to give a preventive something is wrong.

 

[roscoe erf]

Cow went down with milk fever before calving, had calcitrace bolus and bottle of calcium, this perked her up and had an assisted calving not tight and cleansed. Still can't stand up, can lift her with hip lifter and she walks about absolutely fine, eats and drinks but when she parks up again she can't stand without the lifter.
Any suggestions or is it down to time and patience?
Thanks Howard

had similar here just kept lifting her twice a day for nearly a month then one morning she was up on her own still isolated but seems to be getting stronger each day
time and vitamin b is all she had hers was a fall 3 weeks after calving had to hand rear calf

 

[Stinker]

According to the bovikalc website

• BOVIKALC should not be used for initial treatment of milk fever

• Do not use BOVIKALC for cows lying down or showing signs of milk fever

 

[Clay52]

According to the bovikalc website

• BOVIKALC should not be used for initial treatment of milk fever

• Do not use BOVIKALC for cows lying down or showing signs of milk fever

They just got to cover themselves.

 

[Stinker]

They just got to cover themselves.

Your probably right but I'm think they would be better combined with a bottle of calcium iv

 

[Clay52]

Along same lines I think I've seen is say on bags of calcium only to be given under skin and IV is vet only.

 

[Clay52]

Your probably right but I'm think they would be better combined with a bottle of calcium iv

People love giving calcium IV. It makes them feel special. It gets overused a lot.

 

[multi power]

When do you give it as a preventative?

I go wth the theory that cows when looked after properly before calving shouldn't get milk fever. If I need to give a preventive something is wrong.

100% correct

 

[Cows 'n grass]

When do you give it as a preventative?

I go wth the theory that cows when looked after properly before calving shouldn't get milk fever. If I need to give a preventive something is wrong.

Because my cows aren't looked after properly I guess.

I'll calve 450 in 6 weeks spread over half a dozen sheds on 2 or 3 farms all on just round bale silage or self feed silage with mag in all the water troughs.

We draft out of the various calving groups mid morning each day and they get milked and drenched that afternoon. Jerseys can be a bit prone to milk fever but this works for me.

 

[Princess Pooper]

I'll quite happily own up to giving an older cow or one with a lot of milk on a 'preventative' calcium. We had a thinnish 8th calver last week and yes, she had a bottle but had no clinical milk fever symptoms. I would far rather do and admit my our own inadequacies than have a retained cleanse, slow calving or clinical milk fever to deal with. And how come if some people are so perfect at dry cow management they can say things like
'Ive always found if you can't get calcium IV oral calcium works much better than Under the skin. If I'm not around I get others to just give oral calcium just gotta be carful not to choke down cows. '.

We have a very simple dry cow management regime here and if we do decide to use calcium, it is a calciject 5 bottle under the skin. It does not seem to lead to any further problems down the line due to a drop. I'm not saying it can't just that we see no evidence of this. Presumably, if you read the James Herriott books and how the vets were regarded as some sort of magician when they started using calcium for downer cows, one has to assume the cows did not, generally, relapse later - I'm sure the Yorkshire hill farmers would have let them know the magic had worn off!