CRD website, mesurol and sonido

[matttargett4]

i was asked about maize after grass yesterday and my knee jerk was no sonido is gone i cant risk it, because im sad i was thinking about it in bed this morning so decided to check the crd website.

so i searched by product name and found both sonido and mesurol, cool, both of their authourisations on the face of it run for a bit yet so i started looking at the notices section down the bottom but unless im confusing myself neither has actually been revoked.

so got over to the ctl page and sure enough down the bottom is the withdrawal notice with the dates we all know on it.

so i was hoping someone like @Brisel who reads the crd database as a bedtime story could take a look and tell me if im right or wrong.

thanks

 

[Brisel]

I don’t have the energy to read anything other than the back of my eyelids at bedtime these days!

I’ll have a look for you. I don’t grow maize, so haven’t kept up with what seed dressings are going and when. I’m double rolling osr today on autosteer so this will give me something else to think about.

Just because a product is still licenced doesn’t necessarily mean you can still buy it...

 

[Brisel]

Sonido is ok until 2022 and Mesurol ok until 2023. I’ve no idea what the supply of either is like. Thiacloprid in Sonido is the one neonic that is far less toxic to bees so is also still approved as a foliar spray as Biscaya.

I can’t remember any members of TFF in the South who would use it. When I remember their usernames I’ll tag them.

 

[Brisel]

@JCFC ?

 

[JCFC]

Neither Sonido or Mesurol will be available for planting in 2020......

 

[matttargett4]

that was my understanding, hence i was confused when i couldnt find the withdrawal info???

 

[JCFC]

I haven’t looked up the withdrawal info myself. Only based on info published from the MGA and from seed companies not offering it for next year. Appreciate that doesn’t really answer your original question!!

 

[matttargett4]

out of the matter of interest do you plan on doing much different without mesurol?

 

[JCFC]

I think probably step up bird pest control
Drill higher risk blocks later and deeper
Heavy Roll high risk blocks
Drill very high risk blocks under film
I have shortened my grass leys to 1 and 2 year leys to negate the loss of Sonido.

 

[Brisel]

That's quite a cost - how long were the leys before?

Thanks for stepping in, J

 

[Gong Farmer]

Companies can stop supplying products off their own bat, doesn't have to involve approval issues.

 

[som farmer]

I think probably step up bird pest control
Drill higher risk blocks later and deeper
Heavy Roll high risk blocks
Drill very high risk blocks under film
I have shortened my grass leys to 1 and 2 year leys to negate the loss of Sonido.

do you think a lot of maize growers have thought about the risks, without these chemicals ? We started growing maize back in the 70's, then bird control consisted of a shotgun, and 1000's of bamboo canes, and miles of string ! pest job should be ok, can be sorted with rotation, and rolling. As maize is deemed a 'danger' crop, run-off, soil structure etc, it will, no doubt, be subject to increasing environmental controls. So what other crops are there to replace maize ?

 

[Barry]

i was asked about maize after grass yesterday and my knee jerk was no sonido is gone i cant risk it, because im sad i was thinking about it in bed this morning so decided to check the crd website.

so i searched by product name and found both sonido and mesurol, cool, both of their authourisations on the face of it run for a bit yet so i started looking at the notices section down the bottom but unless im confusing myself neither has actually been revoked.

so got over to the ctl page and sure enough down the bottom is the withdrawal notice with the dates we all know on it.

so i was hoping someone like @Brisel who reads the crd database as a bedtime story could take a look and tell me if im right or wrong.

thanks

I looked back on an internal email about Sonido and Mesurol and it said that although the products have not been formally withdrawn the guidance from the manufacturer is that it is 'highly unlikely that they will be reregistered'. They were expecting a revocation and they were not planning to produce anymore product and they recommended a zero stocking policy at the end of Spring 2019.

Hope that helps.


Barry

 

[Boysground]

I think probably step up bird pest control
Drill higher risk blocks later and deeper
Heavy Roll high risk blocks
Drill very high risk blocks under film
I have shortened my grass leys to 1 and 2 year leys to negate the loss of Sonido.

All my rotational grass ley is Italian mix for 2 years. Most years I will take 1 field to a 3rd 1st cut then put maize in. I’ve not had any pest issues..............yet

Bg

 

[JCFC]

do you think a lot of maize growers have thought about the risks, without these chemicals ? We started growing maize back in the 70's, then bird control consisted of a shotgun, and 1000's of bamboo canes, and miles of string ! pest job should be ok, can be sorted with rotation, and rolling. As maize is deemed a 'danger' crop, run-off, soil structure etc, it will, no doubt, be subject to increasing environmental controls. So what other crops are there to replace maize ?

I have no idea if people have thought about the forthcoming issues, if they haven’t then it will be an expensive lesson. I think whether people like it or not block cropping and large areas of maize that can be planted in a very short space of time at incredible depth accuracy means that a huge area all emerges at the same time and this dilutes the bird affect.
I think 2/3 year leys are probably fine although the longer the more risk. The second year of maize after a long term ley is particularly susceptible to wire worm. Leatherjackets can cause massive losses very quickly and there is no Chem control for them either. This is why we have gone to short term leys. They are more expensive but also they do yield higher, so cost per tonne of DM can be similar.
As with many things I don’t think that Maize is the problem, it’s people growing it in the wrong places, growing late varieties, not having a post harvest plan, producing too fine a seed bed etc that all lead to environmental issues. I would think the vast majority is grown responsibly and a tiny area gives the crop bad headlines.
I think the Maize Growers Association (MGA) as a farmer owner not profit making organisation do a great job in promoting responsible maize production and have a wealth of independent trial data to aid its members, great value for money!

 

[deleted user 837354]

Sonido wasnt worth its cost; nothing like the efficacy of poncho.

Ive broken long term grass with maize many times before its risky but not insanely so.

The information coming out of the MGA was dubious at times. Varietal data is free from NIAB so I dont really see the need for anything else.

Birds- get a gun and shoot them.

 

[JCFC]

Yet people complain that we have very little independent trial data left in the Uk!!! The answer above sums it up perfectly ??????

 

[deleted user 837354]

Yet people complain that we have very little independent trial data left in the Uk!!! The answer above sums it up perfectly ??????

Plenty of independant trials are done. The advice coming from the MGA or rather one character in particular was near comedy at times.

If you dont trust NIAB then who do you trust exactly?