Dale Eco-Drill

[Fran Loake]

Has your drill got shear bolts on the legs or normal bolts?

Shear bolts I guess, we have snapped a couple but not by drilling (once by forgetting to lift up when we turned, and once by catching a steel door runner).

On the question of twice as many legs on the Dale as a CO/Sprinter, it is of course possible to alter the row width from 5 to 10 inches on the Dale, I guess that would help if things got dire.

 

[SilliamWhale]

no hairpinning possibilities and a bit of soil mineralization from the soil movement plus for crops like OSR the trash sweeping action of a tine and then the possibility of some seedbed fert if required - chances of success have to be higher surely in such situations

@SilliamWhale has had his share of issues with crops like OSR after wheat I believe to agree I suspect ??

I've had a bit of trouble but equally others haven't with the 750 and rape so its probably my management. Last year I think where I got it wrong was:

Not mixing some pellets with the seed and probably seeding too deep with too much downpressure and letting things get a bit slotty. When I sprayed off the failure it was quite interesting that as it started growing some areas were better than others so obviously its not just a drill thing. I will try again to do a better job next year (the year before's rape was quite good even though the plants looked a bit crap all winter) because its up to me to make the drill function rather than say its faulty. Also slug pellets were melting away in a short time.

That said had we had less rain, less slugs, warmer temperature and had I drilled a bit earlier with a bit of fert shallower with less downpressure I think it would have been ok. I am going to do some low disturbance subsoil drilling and some with the 750 next time.

 

[Fuzzy]

I'm on the pulpit again....

But just thinking about it again.

100k over 1000 acres = £100 acre. Or £20/acre over 5 years for drilling. 50k on a 4m 750 and 50k on a Dale (maybe aitchison). Nothing is too hp hungry - in fact its enough capacity for 2000 acres if you have a varied rotation.

I guess you'd have to be confident enough you can DD to invest this but its not as if the drills don't work it any other situation, which brings me to my perennial point - why doesn't everyone own a direct drill?!

I think if someone has fully adopted DD (ie they dont need a plough, power harrow, quadtrack, challenger,simba kit, sumo press discs etc etc) and cant afford to invest 100k in Direct drilling kit on 1000 acres (let alone 2000) they really are in the wrong business!!!!

Edit ! I think the point being missed is that if you fully or largely adopt DD you dont need to spend money on other kit so you should be able to invest in good drilling equipment (be it 1 or 2 or 3 dd drills) ie a good plough must be about 30k, power harrow the same, etc.etc

 

[Clive]

I think if someone has fully adopted DD (ie they dont need a plough, power harrow, quadtrack, challenger,simba kit, sumo press discs etc etc) and cant afford to invest 100k in Direct drilling kit on 1000 acres (let alone 2000) they really are in the wrong business!!!!

Edit ! I think the point being missed is that if you fully or largely adopt DD you dont need to spend money on other kit so you should be able to invest in good drilling equipment (be it 1 or 2 or 3 dd drills) ie a good plough must be about 30k, power harrow the same, etc.etc

Exactly - I will have so few bits of kit here that the cost of what I do have is almost of no relevance to me

Return on capital employed is FAR higher in a dd system than it could ever be under a cultivated regime

 

[debe]

All very well for the 1000 acre plus farmers, but what about the smaller farmer, is it just the plough for them, the thought of spending 50 odd thousand on a dale or even 35k on a new 3m jd, when the current kit is worth a few grand will take more than just faith. There are plenty of used cultivator drills on the market, be that disc or tine that could surely be converted for minimal cost, perhaps removing the system disc and replacing with a leading disc, or a gen coulter or perhaps even a standard moore. you may such accurate depth control but on narrow widths is this such a problem? Intrigued thats all.

 

[Clive]

All very well for the 1000 acre plus farmers, but what about the smaller farmer, is it just the plough for them, the thought of spending 50 odd thousand on a dale or even 35k on a new 3m jd, when the current kit is worth a few grand will take more than just faith. There are plenty of used cultivator drills on the market, be that disc or tine that could surely be converted for minimal cost, perhaps removing the system disc and replacing with a leading disc, or a gen coulter or perhaps even a standard moore. you may such accurate depth control but on narrow widths is this such a problem? Intrigued thats all.

Loads of cheap ways to go dd - GEN outlets on a old CO, Amazone Primera (sub 10k drill when they come up), used 750a or old Moore for just a few thousand

It's not really the drill that matters much but more about rotation and management skill IMO

 

[SilliamWhale]

All very well for the 1000 acre plus farmers, but what about the smaller farmer, is it just the plough for them, the thought of spending 50 odd thousand on a dale or even 35k on a new 3m jd, when the current kit is worth a few grand will take more than just faith. There are plenty of used cultivator drills on the market, be that disc or tine that could surely be converted for minimal cost, perhaps removing the system disc and replacing with a leading disc, or a gen coulter or perhaps even a standard moore. you may such accurate depth control but on narrow widths is this such a problem? Intrigued thats all.

My 750 was 6k and looks like a piece of sh!t. It works almost as well as a new one. It can be done. They will be a bit rarer now but in the past I have seen a 3m available for 5k, 7k and a 6m for 18k.

Plenty of Moores cheap.

 

[debe]

Loads of cheap ways to go dd - GEN outlets on a old CO, Amazone Primera (sub 10k drill when they come up), used 750a or old Moore for just a few thousand

It's not really the drill that matters much but more about rotation and management skill IMO

I was just surprised that the horsch was dismissed so quickly by willscale earlier on, only to bring up subsoiling in the next breath, I would have thought a bit of disturbance would be the lesser of two evils in this case?

 

[Clive]

I was just surprised that the horsch was dismissed so quickly by willscale earlier on, only to bring up subsoiling in the next breath, I would have thought a bit of disturbance would be the lesser of two evils in this case?

CO with the right counters is being used successfully by guys like @SorenIlsoe bit more soil moving than I would want to see and on wide drills I would have concerns over depth control, not an issue at 3 or 4 m though really

 

[debe]

I was just surprised that the horsch was dismissed so quickly by willscale earlier on, only to bring up subsoiling in the next breath, I would have thought a bit of disturbance would be the lesser of two evils in this case?

I know they do different things, but for the earlier reasons rape failing the tine would solve more of the problems than a subsoiler.

 

[debe]

CO with the right counters is being used successfully by guys like @SorenIlsoe bit more soil moving than I would want to see and on wide drills I would have concerns over depth control, not an issue at 3 or 4 m though really

If your record yeild came drilling at 10 inch spacing perhaps the future is narrow coulters on a wide spacing?

 

[SilliamWhale]

I was just surprised that the horsch was dismissed so quickly by willscale earlier on, only to bring up subsoiling in the next breath, I would have thought a bit of disturbance would be the lesser of two evils in this case?

Its mainly because of lack of independent coulter depth, seed firming, penetration and slot closing (depending on type of horsch drill). The Anderson tine would do ok in v sandy soils. I didn't mean that it can't work I meant that it could be better. I think you'd be risking a few things if it was your main direct drill.

The subsoiling issue was because sometimes I think its worth phasing in DD on some fields. Subsoiling keeps a vertical structure intact whilst allowing the biology to start its job without too much disturbance.

I'm not saying i'm right, I'm just giving one opinion.

 

[Clive]

If your record yeild came drilling at 10 inch spacing perhaps the future is narrow coulters on a wide spacing?

Maybe but there could be many reasons that crop did so well, row space is the most likely but I would like to see it consistently deliver before jumping to conclusions

 

[SilliamWhale]

I know they do different things, but for the earlier reasons rape failing the tine would solve more of the problems than a subsoiler.

You may be right. In the case of rape I wouldn't disagree I'm not sure the best way to grow it at all. I know the disc drill has done a good job and a poor job but is it right to blame the drill for the poor job? Its not really oilseed rapes year is it so I feel I need more experience before making a decision. My suspicion is that early seeding, better slug killing and early drilling are important.

 

[debe]

Its mainly because of lack of independent coulter depth, seed firming, penetration and slot closing (depending on type of horsch drill). The Anderson tine would do ok in v sandy soils. I didn't mean that it can't work I meant that it could be better. I think you'd be risking a few things if it was your main direct drill.

The subsoiling issue was because sometimes I think its worth phasing in DD on some fields. Subsoiling keeps a vertical structure intact whilst allowing the biology to start its job without too much disturbance.

I'm not saying i'm right, I'm just giving one opinion.

Thankyou, that was a very helpful answer.

 

[stroller]

All very well for the 1000 acre plus farmers, but what about the smaller farmer, is it just the plough for them, the thought of spending 50 odd thousand on a dale or even 35k on a new 3m jd, when the current kit is worth a few grand will take more than just faith. There are plenty of used cultivator drills on the market, be that disc or tine that could surely be converted for minimal cost, perhaps removing the system disc and replacing with a leading disc, or a gen coulter or perhaps even a standard moore. you may such accurate depth control but on narrow widths is this such a problem? Intrigued thats all.

If you got a new 750 and only used it on a small acreage would it last 20 years? That's only 6000 ac on a 300ac farm so £6 ish per acre even if its worth nothing after that time, add in the time and diesel saved and it looks attractive. (I'm trying to talk myself into getting one...next year)

 

[dontknowanything]

The Anderson tine would do ok in v sandy soils.

is the Anderson tine the Duett?

 

[SilliamWhale]

is the Anderson tine the Duett?

Not sure, ask your Dad. Think he's mates with Kevin Anderson.

 

[dontknowanything]

Not sure, ask your Dad. Think he's mates with Kevin Anderson.

Is he? Going to see Mr Horsch next week so I'll ask him. Was just curious because I looked them up and they seemed pretty similar to Duetts

 

[H.Jackson]

Anderson Horsch same coulter designed for sand I believe, after 11years with them still struggle with depth control band sowing fools the slugs but sure the base plate smears some compaction in all but perfect conditions, still soil all the better for so long without a power harrow