Direct drilling friendly agronomists

[Ruston3w]

I was wondering if I could ask without offending anyone how many have enthusiastic DD/CA/regenerative ag agronomists? I know most on here are better qualified to make your own agronomic decisions than I but do you still rely on a conventional agronomist for advice?
I spend a fair bit of time trying to get folks interested but the look in their eyes tells me they would rather I steered a conventional path and saved them the worry.
We still grow potatoes , though we have reduced cultivations and depth of working, so are not true no-till on the land that grows spuds but we are on some other. The land works more easily and we have better margins since ditching the plough 6yrs ago, yet I still have to try and convince my advisors to "believe"
I should add I am not helping myself by sticking with a supply based agronomist, I know he earns based on sales but perhaps it's just naïve of me to think that short term loss in sales might be countered by results?

Richard

 

[Will Blackburn]

They need to embrace it and have other no-till clients. Let’s face it the breadth of chemical knowledge required keeps shrinking.

 

[PSQ]

I should add I am not helping myself by sticking with a supply based agronomist, I know he earns based on sales

It doesn't matter what your establishment system is, supply agronomy is always focused on everyone elses profit before the client. It's almost as if agronomists working for told to push certain high margin chemicals to benefit everyone in their 'sales pyramid', while the farmers at the bottom of the pile are 'assessed' for their sales potential and milked for all they're worth.

Is your current agronomist Independent?

 

[Clive]

Agronomist need to be onside or it will probably fail

For some sales target driven agronomists that going to be a challenge ! Not impossible but a challenge !

 

[Kevtherev]

They have to be in the DD ‘mindset’
As do folk who run the system as opposed to conventional tillage.

 

[jonnyjon]

It's not in the interest of an agronomist to embrace a no till system as their assistance will not be needed as time goes on, if you are just doing no till tho, they will be needed

 

[ollie989898]

There is still a role for an agronomist in no-till. No till is hardly going to magic weeds and disease out of existence, is it? The trick is finding a bloke who has done it before and who has confidence in it.

The hardest part of looking at claydon drilled crops was it required a 'recalibration' of what your view of an ideal establishment and crop emergence looked like.

A seed does not know how it was put in the ground, why should how you view a crop change? I quite like the idea of sort of 'guerilla farming'- where more is less and you see what you can get away with. Not going to sell the maximum amount of stuff to everyone but it would be a good challenge.

 

[Bury the Trash]

There is still a role for an agronomist in no-till. No till is hardly going to magic weeds and disease out of existence, is it? The trick is finding a bloke who has done it before and who has confidence in it.

The hardest part of looking at claydon drilled crops was it required a 'recalibration' of what your view of an ideal establishment and crop emergence looked like.

A seed does not know how it was put in the ground, why should how you view a crop change? I quite like the idea of sort of 'guerilla farming'- where more is less and you see what you can get away with. Not going to sell the maximum amount of stuff to everyone but it would be a good challenge.

Spec you would need a dangerous animals license

 

[Brisel]

My agronomist has at least one other strip till client and a couple of no tillers. Within his (independent) firm, there are at least a dozen no till clients. The firm are looking at doing more for helping clients with soil health. My chap is running with my changes to the farming practices and I detect no issues.

One of this firm's agronomists is a regular poster in TFF. I've no idea if he ventures in this section so I won't "out" him here

Have you had a good long chat with your agronomist about this @Ruston3w ? If you don't like the answers I suggest you get rid. CA agronomy is a bit different but the basic principles are the same. If you're relying on them for the detailed soil health stuff like nutrition then I think it's more important to have someone who really knows this subject.

 

[jonnyjon]

There is still a role for an agronomist in no-till. No till is hardly going to magic weeds and disease out of existence, is it? The trick is finding a bloke who has done it before and who has confidence in it.

The hardest part of looking at claydon drilled crops was it required a 'recalibration' of what your view of an ideal establishment and crop emergence looked like.

A seed does not know how it was put in the ground, why should how you view a crop change? I quite like the idea of sort of 'guerilla farming'- where more is less and you see what you can get away with. Not going to sell the maximum amount of stuff to everyone but it would be a good challenge.

No till on it's own is not magic, it will fail. No till in conjunction with a 100% commitment to soil health is when the magic happens

 

[Ruston3w]

Thanks for all the replies, obviously an independent with no-till experience would be good , those who I have encountered tend to be high-fliers linked to the retailers/big time veg world and not that excited by our modest outfit.
The thing that encourages me the most is how much improved are soil is despite still growing potatoes, we spent nearly 40 yrs rowing up stones, then spreading them out , only to row them up again a few years later..i know there is potential to reduce the disruption caused by potato growing as we have already seen the start of it but to many it is rather akin to saying we have a mild form of leprosy, i.e. while you stick with the spuds theres no hope.....here's to finding someone keen to guide us.

Richard.

 

[Chris F]

Procam seem to be specialising in this area. They sponsor Direct Driller magazine and contribute good and interesting content. Having spoken to many of their agronomists, they get what is needed to make a system successful.

 

[Ruston3w]

That's funny really, I abandoned them a few years ago- rightly or wrongly I felt they were more combinable/straight down the middle arable focused and I was wanting a different viewpoint, now I agree, they clearly are more interested than some of the others ...but still sales based.

 

[Clive]

No till on it's own is not magic, it will fail. No till in conjunction with a 100% commitment to soil health is when the magic happens

What a great post

This is the bit some just don’t understand / believe

 

[Ruston3w]

What a great post

This is the bit some just don’t understand / believe

Ooops! I may have just taken a direct hit.
Surely though there are many lessons to be drawn from you true no-tillers to help mitigate the damage from growing roots?
If 100% commitment to soil health means no roots then does it follow root crop growers are doomed to the bottomless sea of mud many are heading for at the moment? Damn chips will be dear!

 

[Clive]

Ooops! I may have just taken a direct hit.
Surely though there are many lessons to be drawn from you true no-tillers to help mitigate the damage from growing roots?
If 100% commitment to soil health means no roots then does it follow root crop growers are doomed to the bottomless sea of mud many are heading for at the moment? Damn chips will be dear!

Roots and soil biology health are not great bedfellows

You can still benifit from some of the financial saving of DD I guess though but will not see the “magic” that can happen in a true longer term undisturbed soil

As long as the roots pay that’s not a problem though - no till isn’t for everyone and every farming system

 

[tr250]

Luckily we have no-till enthusiast agronomists only by chance we've had our kind of last but still oversees things agronomist 20 years now we have a young lad that he's trained that's enthusiastic with new ideas but still got experience of older in the background. We rely reasonably heavily on agronomist on the Chems as I'm pretty busy on livestock side to really take an interest so tend to leave it a bit more up to them than a solely arable man would I guess

 

[Badshot]

Mine is fully on board for no till.

He is the same advisory firm as @BenB

Very good backup from the whole team.

Independent.

 

[Banana Bar]

Agronomist need to be onside or it will probably fail

For some sales target driven agronomists that going to be a challenge ! Not impossible but a challenge !

Don’t think it’s just supply agronomists who struggle with this. I know 2 people who changed their agronomist when they went low / no till

 

[jonnyjon]

Ooops! I may have just taken a direct hit.
Surely though there are many lessons to be drawn from you true no-tillers to help mitigate the damage from growing roots?
If 100% commitment to soil health means no roots then does it follow root crop growers are doomed to the bottomless sea of mud many are heading for at the moment? Damn chips will be dear!

There is a carrot field near by that resembles a lake, it was harvested in perfect weather and there wasn't a wheeling to be seen. A perfect example of the wanton destruction caused by tillage. I used to think the destruction in root fields was caused by harvesting in bad weather but it is mostly caused by the tillage it seems