Do ag chems go off ?

[Clive]

Sprayed one block of wheat this year with some Atlantis that has been sat on a shelf here for 2 or maybe 3 years (we stopped using it as it checked crop badly and went in preference to broadsway star)

applied in near perfect conditions and 200L water, no rain after etc and it seems to have done bugger all to weeds, not just harder to control grass weeds but the easy broadleaf stuff that its should absolutely murder

I simply cant think why its been so poor other than maybe it had gone off ?


do ag chems have used by dates or active shelf lives etc ? anyone else ever had a problem when using up old stock ?

 

[Hampton]

Not heard of Su granules going off before. Some of the suspensions or OD formulations I wouldn’t want hanging around too long.
Not encountered it much, particularly with the more expensive products such as Atlantis, but generally when clearing up someone’s chem store the products have worked quite well.

Just sat in a car garage and a lady came in playing merry hell about her range breaking down to which the service manager asked “are you sure there’s any fuel in it?”
So with the risk of sounding facetious, did you remember to put it in the tank?

 

[Clive]

Not heard of Su granules going off before. Some of the suspensions or OD formulations I wouldn’t want hanging around too long.
Not encountered it much, particularly with the more expensive products such as Atlantis, but generally when clearing up someone’s chem store the products have worked quite well.

Just sat in a car garage and a lady came in playing merry hell about her range breaking down to which the service manager asked “are you sure there’s any fuel in it?”
So with the risk of sounding facetious, did you remember to put it in the tank?

well its disappeared somewhere so fairly sure it hit the tank certainly odd though to see a ag chem completely fail like this when application went well and was well timed etc

got to do a ally / starane / topic tidy up job now

 

[Hampton]

well its disappeared somewhere so fairly sure it hit the tank certainly odd though to see a ag chem completely fail like this when application went well and was well timed etc

got to do a ally / starane / topic tidy up job now

Aforementioned Ladies reply was a bit more agricultural than that!

 

[Hampton]

How long ago did you apply it?

 

[Clive]

How long ago did you apply it?

6 weeks now

 

[Hampton]

6 weeks now

Do you think the cold snap after application stopped uptake?

 

[Clive]

Do you think the cold snap after application stopped uptake?

maybe but I would still expect it to do a bit of a job - its done literally nothing, not even to the broadleaves

 

[Hampton]

maybe but I would still expect it to do a bit of a job - its done literally nothing, not even to the broadleaves

Ring your Bayer rep. They will give you a shopping list of excuses, but that’s what they are there for.

 

[Brisel]

Any nozzle blockages or reason to suggest that the product didn't hit the target? Mixed with CTL? Any water quality issues? Any adjuvants used? Soil and air temperature?

 

[Two Tone]

Atlantis stopped working as Blackgrass control here years ago. It still killed certain BLW's though, especially Runch ahead of the following years Rape crop.

Not heard of it going off, but I absolutely agree with you that it does stunt a crop badly and does a fairly good job as a PGR. Did you notice any stunting of the wheat this year?
If not' I'd suggest that it did indeed go off.

I assume hat you did use the correct wetter with it.

 

[chipchap]

Had a similar issue with some Titus look alike a few years ago. Worked a bit but nowhere near proper Titus.

 

[Clive]

Any nozzle blockages or reason to suggest that the product didn't hit the target? Mixed with CTL? Any water quality issues? Any adjuvants used? Soil and air temperature?

not mixed with anything, separate application at 200L/ha with biopower (all branded not generics etc) no blocked nozzles etc. Bradway Star used on other blocks of land has done a 100% job as usual, applied a bit later but same water source etc

 

[Clive]

Atlantis stopped working as Blackgrass control here years ago. It still killed certain BLW's though, especially Runch ahead of the following years Rape crop.

Not heard of it going off, but I absolutely agree with you that it does stunt a crop badly and does a fairly good job as a PGR. Did you notice any stunting of the wheat this year?
If not' I'd suggest that it did indeed go off.

I assume hat you did use the correct wetter with it.

No it don't hurt the crop at all this time or make it look bad which further makes me think its was about as much use as applying water !

 

[Brisel]

not mixed with anything, separate application at 200L/ha with biopower (all branded not generics etc) no blocked nozzles etc. Bradway Star used on other blocks of land has done a 100% job as usual, applied a bit later but same water source etc

Hmm. If it was low temperatures then the Broadway is even more susceptible to the cold than Atlantis. I've never heard of chemicals "going off" unless they have been exposed to some serious frost, log periods of UV light or suspensions have separated out & left the active ingredient at the bottom of a badly rinsed can. Wettable granules like Atlantis should be stable for years. I would recommend that you test your sprayer water for pH and hardness anyway. A day with @drummer_bruhaha is an eye opening experience as to what we are actually putting in our tanks.

 

[Oat]

For some liquid products you may expect it start to degrade after a couple of years, but if this did happen, it would be fairly minor and slow. For a product to become completely insert, it would probably take much longer than 3 years. Given that Atlantis is a WG, it is fairly stable and very unlikely to degrade in 3 years.

If it was just blackgrass it has not worked on, then it is possible you have developed resistance (unlikely given what appears from comments on TFF, to be good husbandry), but to not work on BLWs also, seems strange. Are you sure it was Atlantis, had the can be opened already?

To have absolutely no effect seems very strange, as even slight degradation, or a similar looking granule product is probably still going to give some effect, on either grassweeds, BLWs, or the crop.

Unfortunately, the 3 year age may be an easy get-out-clause for any claim to the distributor/supplier/manufacturer.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

What about Roundup?

Farmer where I am just now sprayed weeds off around his yard 11 days ago and they look no different to those he hasn’t got around to yet.

Usual knapsack job, probably got twice the dose it should have. He bought the can about three years ago and has been spot spraying bits and bobs since then to good effect until now.

 

[Brisel]

What kind of weeds? Big thistles & willoherb will take weeks to show symptoms.

 

[Clive]

For some liquid products you may expect it start to degrade after a couple of years, but if this did happen, it would be fairly minor and slow. For a product to become completely insert, it would probably take much longer than 3 years. Given that Atlantis is a WG, it is fairly stable and very unlikely to degrade in 3 years.

If it was just blackgrass it has not worked on, then it is possible you have developed resistance (unlikely given what appears from comments on TFF, to be good husbandry), but to not work on BLWs also, seems strange. Are you sure it was Atlantis, had the can be opened already?

To have absolutely no effect seems very strange, as even slight degradation, or a similar looking granule product is probably still going to give some effect, on either grassweeds, BLWs, or the crop.

Unfortunately, the 3 year age may be an easy get-out-clause for any claim to the distributor/supplier/manufacturer.

sealed cans (several) genuine atlantis, no BG here so no resistance

don't expect any come back on 3 year old stuff, just wondering why it would simply not work

 

[deleted user 837354]

Atlantis is not that good on a number of BLWs so be wary. By the sounds of it you have had a duffer. It doesnt work well in cool temperatures ive had it bite me before.

Sat in granule or powder form its stable for years. Unless you had a dodgy can to begin with. Had a spray contractor report that to me once- all that years pacifica seemed duff. Put it down to the season.