Dr Tim Leunig

[Danllan]

Well that’s a response to Johnson’s posturing!! Maybe the EU think that it impossible to negotiate with someone as inconsistent as Johnson? All anyone can do is wait (some more) and see what happens.
As I implied previously Johnson’s (Cummings’) public pronouncements are paving the way for a blame game rather than a successful negotiation. Look back to talk of the easiest trade deal in history is just pointless, .

For reasons I simply cannot fathom, you seem absolutely determined to see the worst in all that comes from the UK and refuse point blank to see any fault in the EU.

 

[le bon paysan]

For reasons I simply cannot fathom, you seem absolutely determined to see the worst in all that comes from the UK and refuse point blank to see any fault in the EU.

For reasons I simply cannot fathom, you seem absolutely determined tho see the worst in all that comes from the EU and refuse point blank to see any fault in the UK . .

 

[Mek]

For reasons I simply cannot fathom, you seem absolutely determined to see the worst in all that comes from the UK and refuse point blank to see any fault in the EU.

There are good and bad things about both the UK and the EU but the UK government and the brexit party have hoodwinked the British public with lies and falsehoods about the EU that are firmly at the door of the UK.

 

[Danllan]

For reasons I simply cannot fathom, you seem absolutely determined tho see the worst in all that comes from the EU and refuse point blank to see any fault in the UK . .

Brilliant, quite brilliant, and entirely expectable; imitation amounting to flattery?

The UK is not perfect and you won't find any post of mine that says it is, or ever was. There were a few good ideas lurking in our EU membership: free trade, although it was a very expensive version, is a good thing; the Erasmus program could be very good too - if the finances were fair; the ESA is something I do not object to in any way. But, the massive difference is that worst from the EU is the worst by a very, very, very long way: the undermining of our (the UK's) democracy.

There are good and bad things about both the UK and the EU but the UK government and the brexit party have hoodwinked the British public with lies and falsehoods about the EU that are firmly at the door of the UK.

Following from the post by your fellow-traveller above: the EU hoodwinked the British public with lies and falsehoods about the EU...

 

[sheepish]

Seeing as you're criticising the supporters of Brexit on the basis of dishonesty... what are your thoughts about the EU's originally saying that a 'Canada +' deal was their preferred outcome of Brexit, and their complete volte face with them now saying that such a deal is 'impossible'*? Just asking.

Have you got a link to any meeting minutes or press release where the EU said that Canada + was their preferred outcome.

I think the story comes from this slide : https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sit...e_presented_by_barnier_at_euco_15-12-2017.pdf

Note the bit that says, "This is only for presentational and information purposes. It is naturally without prejudice to discussions on the framework of the future relationship. "

Now, I don't know when that comment was added. But I also don't think this was ever presented as a preference. I think it was to show where the UK negotiating red lines were in 2017 and which existing deals were not behind those red lines for comparison. But I'd be interested to see something that suggests this was used to indicate a preference.

 

[Danllan]

Have you got a link to any meeting minutes or press release where the EU said that Canada + was their preferred outcome.

I think the story comes from this slide : https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sit...e_presented_by_barnier_at_euco_15-12-2017.pdf

Note the bit that says, "This is only for presentational and information purposes. It is naturally without prejudice to discussions on the framework of the future relationship. "

Now, I don't know when that comment was added. But I also don't think this was ever presented as a preference. I think it was to show where the UK negotiating red lines were in 2017 and which existing deals were not behind those red lines for comparison. But I'd be interested to see something that suggests this was used to indicate a preference.

Donald Tusk was the mouthpiece, I saw him on TV in 2018 I think; a quick search shows this:

The EU offers an alternative Brexit but what is Canada +++?

It is a real solution or just more political games?

metro.co.uk

I'm sure a more detailed search will give find footage of his announcement.

 

[sheepish]

Donald Tusk was the mouthpiece, I saw him on TV in 2018 I think; a quick search shows this:

The EU offers an alternative Brexit but what is Canada +++?

It is a real solution or just more political games?

metro.co.uk

I'm sure a more detailed search will give find footage of his announcement.

Did you read as far as the bit that says, "Therefore Canada +++ is likely to come with some sizeable caveats." ?
Which I think is broadly where we are today?

 

[fudge]

Rubbish! My point is that the brexiteers were dishonest in suggesting that the EU would not protect their own interests. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that once outside the EU the UK would have no control over what the EU’s priorities.

In reply to @Danllan

 

[Danllan]

Did you read as far as the bit that says, "Therefore Canada +++ is likely to come with some sizeable caveats." ?
Which I think is broadly where we are today?

Yep, read that, and also recall Mr Tusk stating that a Canada deal was most likely and desirable and Mr Barnier echoing that - while they had TM in Downing Street... They changed their mind several times while accusing the UK of not having a set ideal, and I don't blame them for that, they were right (under TM), but I do wish others would stop pretending that the EU are honest and consistent negotiators. Fine by me if it's not going be that way, I don't look upon WTO terms with dread.

Anyway, I think that there will be a very vague (as vague as legally possible) commitment from both the UK and the EU to a 'general and wide-ranging' trade deal. This, which basically means nothing, will allow trade to go on as it is under the GATT provisions for a decade or so, because they'll stretch it. The UK will have access to and benefit from the EU market without any unwanted obligations and the EU will benefit from the large trade deficit in its favour.

Rubbish! My point is that the brexiteers were dishonest in suggesting that the EU would not protect their own interests. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that once outside the EU the UK would have no control over what the EU’s priorities.

In reply to @Danllan

I can't comment for others, but you won't find any post by me suggesting that the EU wouldn't defend its own interest. What you will find are posts by me stating that the member states of the EU will stick up for their own interests which, unsurprisingly, are not identical to those of the EU - remember, EU officials don't care about individual countries, sorry, 'regions', it's the European 'project' that matters.

 

[fudge]

Yep, read that, and also recall Mr Tusk stating that a Canada deal was most likely and desirable and Mr Barnier echoing that - while they had TM in Downing Street... They changed their mind several times while accusing the UK of not having a set ideal, and I don't blame them for that, they were right (under TM), but I do wish others would stop pretending that the EU are honest and consistent negotiators. Fine by me if it's not going be that way, I don't look upon WTO terms with dread.

Anyway, I think that there will be a very vague (as vague as legally possible) commitment from both the UK and the EU to a 'general and wide-ranging' trade deal. This, which basically means nothing, will allow trade to go on as it is under the GATT provisions for a decade or so, because they'll stretch it. The UK will have access to and benefit from the EU market without any unwanted obligations and the EU will benefit from the large trade deficit in its favour.


I can't comment for others, but you won't find any post by me suggesting that the EU wouldn't defend its own interest. What you will find are posts by me stating that the member states of the EU will stick up for their own interests which, unsurprisingly, are not identical to those of the EU - remember, EU officials don't care about individual countries, sorry, 'regions', it's the European 'project' that matters.

Who cares what you said? The dishonesty comes from Johnson,Gove,Fox er al on numerous occasions. Unless unbeknown to me you are one of the “weirdos and misfits” guiding policy?

 

[Danllan]

Who cares what you said? The dishonesty comes from Johnson,Gove,Fox er al on numerous occasions. Unless unbeknown to me you are one of the “weirdos and misfits” guiding policy?

You, apparently, do care, because you respond to it.

That aside, no I'm not a lurking Cabinet Minister past or present. And I note your total avoidance of even acknowledging the dishonesty of the EU and its acolytes. I wonder why not...

 

[czechmate]

Parking is great here, they just park anywhere they like but most houses have signs up saying private parking, during the busy half term the gondola car park was full up so loads just park on the side of the road, there are big signs saying no parking but no took any notice, then one day every car had a parking ticket folk were going mad, next day loads more parked there, no tickets this went on for several days then out the blue a load more tickets, it's all done on a whim it seems or perhaps the mayor needs a bit of cash

I bet you can’t wait to get home
A little challenge before you do, see if you really can avoid British cheese in a supermarket .

I find the tax thing you write strange (maybe because it’s a resort?). My poll tax in the uk (in leics) was getting towards 3k. Here it’s 600, for a house twice as big.

As a farmer, the tax on land was a bit of a shock (no rates on land in the uk; yet; of course). Here my little patch is 7k. But then the subs are incomparible
And that is the thing, the charges, taxes, costs, of life, particularly running a business are done in such a different way - snap shot comparisons are meaningless and pointless.
Overall, I would say in my position we are quite a lot better off but it’s irrelevant to me anyway, the life, for me, is soooo much better. For yourself and @bobk for example, it plainly just doesn’t tick your boxes

 

[robs1]

I bet you can’t wait to get home
A little challenge before you do, see if you really can avoid British cheese in a supermarket .

I find the tax thing you write strange (maybe because it’s a resort?). My poll tax in the uk (in leics) was getting towards 3k. Here it’s 600, for a house twice as big.

As a farmer, the tax on land was a bit of a shock (no rates on land in the uk; yet; of course). Here my little patch is 7k. But then the subs are incomparible
And that is the thing, the charges, taxes, costs, of life, particularly running a business are done in such a different way - snap shot comparisons are meaningless and pointless.
Overall, I would say in my position we are quite a lot better off but it’s irrelevant to me anyway, the life, for me, is soooo much better. For yourself and @bobk for example, it plainly just doesn’t tick your boxes

Will redouble my efforts to find uk cheese, France is the only country I would emigrate to, I first came over in 79 on a young farmers exchange and fell in love with the place, I think it's a shame that it is losing some of its individuality but will keep coming back we are here for 11cwks this time and are loving it but I couldnt leave all my grandkids, kids and friends and move here, should have done it in 79 and moved in with the young lady I hooked up with while here, she was only child of a farming family too, sometimes I wonder how life turned out for her

 

[ollie989898]

Will redouble my efforts to find uk cheese, France is the only country I would emigrate to, I first came over in 79 on a young farmers exchange and fell in love with the place, I think it's a shame that it is losing some of its individuality but will keep coming back we are here for 11cwks this time and are loving it but I couldnt leave all my grandkids, kids and friends and move here, should have done it in 79 and moved in with the young lady I hooked up with while here, she was only child of a farming family too, sometimes I wonder how life turned out for her

I do like their way of life and the feel of French village life. You could do it Rob, it's not far away and the grand kids will soon be old enough to travel. Only here once!

 

[czechmate]

Will redouble my efforts to find uk cheese, France is the only country I would emigrate to, I first came over in 79 on a young farmers exchange and fell in love with the place, I think it's a shame that it is losing some of its individuality but will keep coming back we are here for 11cwks this time and are loving it but I couldnt leave all my grandkids, kids and friends and move here, should have done it in 79 and moved in with the young lady I hooked up with while here, she was only child of a farming family too, sometimes I wonder how life turned out for her

Without exception, the éxpats that return that I ha e known of, are because the lady (grandma) can’t live away from grand kids.

 

[robs1]

Without exception, the éxpats that return that I ha e known of, are because the lady (grandma) can’t live away from grand kids.

I can see how that would be true , I would move in a heartbeat if it wasnt for family and friends,

 

[czechmate]

I can see how that would be true , I would move in a heartbeat if it wasnt for family and friends,

Obviously helps to be a cold bar steward

 

[fudge]

You, apparently, do care, because you respond to it.

That aside, no I'm not a lurking Cabinet Minister past or present. And I note your total avoidance of even acknowledging the dishonesty of the EU and its acolytes. I wonder why not...

There you go again nothing but the blame game. It’s always someone else’s fault. If there is no deal the responsibility will lie on both sides. Any other analysis just doesn’t make sense.

 

[arcobob]

I gave it a shot in the 90s and admit I enjoyed the lifestyle, the truck stop dining, the feudal style mayor and good cheap wine. I then traveled much further afield, partly due to family and friends and ended up being sorely tempted by NZ and western Canada. It is too late now I am afraid to consider any move but I have no regrets and I enjoy experiencing different cultures even within the British Isles. I hate racism and more especially religious sectarianism which I think is the scourge of mankind. It is no good believing that all cultures are the same but we must enjoy our differences. People on here pass derisory comments about the British empire and the commonwealth. Some of these people have emigrated to commonwealth countries but choose to disown the motherland because the Empire has given them a new home and they now believe they are of superior disposition..

 

[Danllan]

There you go again nothing but the blame game. It’s always someone else’s fault. If there is no deal the responsibility will lie on both sides. Any other analysis just doesn’t make sense.

You f^cking hypocrite; all you ever do is carp and whinge and criticise and blame! You haven't stopped since you didn't get your way in the 2016 referendum, and it's on the threads for all to see if they're bored enough to want to do so.

As for your attempt at 'analysis'... boll*cks, show us a major trade deal in which one party has accepted being under the other's jurisdiction, or in which it gives up - in perpetuity - its sovereign and territorial rights. If you think that asking for either of those is anything approaching the international norm, you'll be in for a shock after a little research. Not that you'd admit it.

How can a country refusing to surrender such things be to 'blame' for not accepting them? If these were negotiations between the UK and another country, and the UK were demanding such things, you would be damning the UK in that situation and we all know you would.

That's the size of it, you always take the Corbynesque line of cheering for the other side, on 'principle'...