Electric cars

[ollie989898]

Thankfully time has moved on since then and so has renewable technology. Biggest problem America has is bad design of there buildings and there apetite for air conditioning.

Of course it has..... that clip isnt that old.

Keep dreaming.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Tesla roof tiles, are not ugly. just think about it when next your roof needs re tiling. It’s an uneconomic option at any other time in my opinion, but a good compromise to ugly solar panels.

Can’t buy them (yet). Not in the UK anyway. Closest you’ll get are PV Slates from GB-Sol. There were lots of limitation when I looked into it a few months ago for a project.

 

[renewablejohn]

Of course it has..... that clip isnt that old.

Keep dreaming.

Really?? the guy is talking about a 5MW wind turbines as being a big wind turbine. The ones being installed now are 10MW with 15MW turbines in development. You never will sort out America as energy has always been far to cheap. Hence the V8 cars and the pennies per litre fuel cost. Only way that will change is when the US cannot compete on energy costs because renewables have undercut the market. UK already looking like 50% electric renewables by 2020 which for saying in 2010 it was virtually zero is not a bad performance.

 

[manhill]

Lifepo4

https://relionbattery.com/blog/what-is-lifepo4-and-why-is-it-better-choice

Wiki says they take up 3 times the space of the cobalt type but they do have other advantages

 

[renewablejohn]

Wiki says they take up 3 times the space of the cobalt type but they do have other advantages

Totally irrelevant when you know original EV's ran on Lead acid batteries which take up more space than Life04 and twice the weight. Do you really need a car with an empty bonnet and boot when we have always been used to an engine under the bonnet .Space is not the premium but weight is. At one third lighter than normal Lithium batteries its significant together with faster charging and capable of more recharges.

 

[Scribus]

I think if Tesla cars got its way, you would only own one car your entire life, and let’s face it that’s a very sensible thing. If totally impossable.
A car that could reliably drive a million miles would last me more than 100 years.

We can safely ignore Tesla on this front. Car manufacturers want repeat sales, which, I suspect, one of the main reasons they are attracted to battery cars. Li-ion batteries are generally held to have a ten year life and who is going to spend thousands on a new battery for a decade old car? Nope, it won't happen, so the cars will have a shorter life and so more will be sold, in theory.

Batteries are the car makers wet dream when it comes to built in obsolescence.

 

[Scribus]

Tesla could be going on to use Lifepo4 batteries which are about one third less in weight than the current batteries.

Such batteries do not have the energy density of L-ion batteries, so Tesla is going backwards.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Totally irrelevant when you know original EV's ran on Lead acid batteries which take up more space than Life04 and twice the weight. Do you really need a car with an empty bonnet and boot when we have always been used to an engine under the bonnet .Space is not the premium but weight is. At one third lighter than normal Lithium batteries its significant together with faster charging and capable of more recharges.

To be fair I wouldn’t want a full pack of batteries anywhere in or near a vehicle crumple zone. Tesla and Rivian use the skateboard concept as it not only aids chassis dynamics by keeping the COG very low, it keeps the pack well away from the crumple zone. It’s has the side benefit of increasing cabin space. It’s a good solution I reckon.

 

[Scribus]

That is fine but who pays? We have only dealt with cars so far and we are basically talking about running gas turbines to produce the electricity in the first place.

I have said the same about our own household utilities as well. Our actual electricity consumption here is low- virtually every light bulb in the place is LED and half of those don't get used. Our appliances are either very low consumption or ultra modern so as efficient as you can get- the net result is that actually our electricity bill is really fudge all.

Water and sewerage- all loos have water save functions and we mostly shower, even the kids. No saving to be had there.

Heating oil- an expense.Double glazing already and will be improving insulation in the loft. Only run the heating for about 5 months a year anyway as the place has so much glass. Heating oil use during the spring and summer is fudge all as only hot water to heat.

Cars- current diesel bill easily £100 a month and I don't actually do much driving at the moment. Some households probably spending double or three times that. This is where electric cars make sense to us.

It won't last.

 

[ollie989898]

Really?? the guy is talking about a 5MW wind turbines as being a big wind turbine. The ones being installed now are 10MW with 15MW turbines in development. You never will sort out America as energy has always been far to cheap. Hence the V8 cars and the pennies per litre fuel cost. Only way that will change is when the US cannot compete on energy costs because renewables have undercut the market. UK already looking like 50% electric renewables by 2020 which for saying in 2010 it was virtually zero is not a bad performance.

50 percent wind... 2020 is only next year.

Of course you intend to compensate gas turbine owners how exactly since they have spent monet building poerstations that they cant run?

 

[renewablejohn]

Such batteries do not have the energy density of L-ion batteries, so Tesla is going backwards.

Not really Lion batteries decay far more rapidly than Lifepo4 batteries and with faster recharge and more recharge cycles they start to look far better. Plus Lifepo4 dont have the same dramatic combustion problems if involved in an accident. Its why buses and trucks are predominately Lifepo4.

 

[renewablejohn]

50 percent wind... 2020 is only next year.

Of course you intend to compensate gas turbine owners how exactly since they have spent monet building poerstations that they cant run?

Not 50% wind but 50% renewables.
Already this year renewables up to 37.4%.

No need to compensate gas turbine owners as they will still be generating a similar volume with higher demand due to the smoothing effect of ev's.

 

[Scribus]

Not 50% wind but 50% renewables.
Already this year renewables up to 37.4%.

No need to compensate gas turbine owners as they will still be generating a similar volume with higher demand due to the smoothing effect of ev's.

Would that be the EV's that achieved less than 1% market penetration in April?

 

[Pilatus]

I appreciate a difficult question to answer, but I am interested to know how much CO2 is produced at a power station ,to produce the electricity to recharge an electric car battery, relative to the amount of co2 that ,that same car would have produced doing the same mileage burning diesel or petrol.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I appreciate a difficult question to answer, but I am interested to know how much CO2 is produced at a power station ,to produce the electricity to recharge an electric car battery, relative to the amount of co2 that ,that same car would have produced doing the same mileage burning diesel or petrol.

I'm sure someone is beavering away on google finding you a precise answer. The long and the short of it, is that even running on the filthiest (mostly coal) powered grid - for example Poland - produces far less CO2 per mile in an electric car than in anything with an internal combustion engine running on fossil fuels.

Of course if you use a "greener" grid then things improves substantially too.

 

[glasshouse]

Really?? the guy is talking about a 5MW wind turbines as being a big wind turbine. The ones being installed now are 10MW with 15MW turbines in development. You never will sort out America as energy has always been far to cheap. Hence the V8 cars and the pennies per litre fuel cost. Only way that will change is when the US cannot compete on energy costs because renewables have undercut the market. UK already looking like 50% electric renewables by 2020 which for saying in 2010 it was virtually zero is not a bad performance.

Where are they installing 10mw wind turbines?
Biggest i have seen in is 3.4 mw

 

[renewablejohn]

I appreciate a difficult question to answer, but I am interested to know how much CO2 is produced at a power station ,to produce the electricity to recharge an electric car battery, relative to the amount of co2 that ,that same car would have produced doing the same mileage burning diesel or petrol.

First bit is easy with real time figures from around the world.

https://www.electricitymap.org/?page=map&solar=false&remote=true&wind=false

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

First bit is easy with real time figures fro around the world.

https://www.electricitymap.org/?page=map&solar=false&remote=true&wind=false

To expand (mathematically) @MX7 on John's lovely link there - take the CO2 grams / kWh figure and multiply it by the kWh/mile for an average EV.

To save you googling it - I can tell you mine, last week was an average of around 0.33 kWh/mile (that's not particularly stellar, but its a decent working average on a mix of A-road, back road and town driving in a pretty big car).

...by my calculations using John's figure for the UK grid that is 344g x 0.33 = 114g of CO2 / mile. I can usually better that figure, to less than 0.28 kWh/mile so around 96g of CO2 per mile.

Now if we were in cheese-eating-surrender-monkey-land with a grid output of 27g/kWh instead of 344g.....well

 

[renewablejohn]

Where are they installing 10mw wind turbines?
Biggest i have seen in is 3.4 mw

Just look offshore at the moment anything less than 8MW is now a baby.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/vestas-unveils-worlds-first-10-mw-wind-turbine-19385/

 

[Scribus]

I appreciate a difficult question to answer, but I am interested to know how much CO2 is produced at a power station ,to produce the electricity to recharge an electric car battery, relative to the amount of co2 that ,that same car would have produced doing the same mileage burning diesel or petrol.

In 2017 the average new car emitted 120.1g/km but that doesn't differentiate between petrol and diesel. Diesels emit 20% less CO2 on average than petrol cars.

https://www.lightfoot.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/how-much-co2-does-a-car-emit-per-year/

There are also transmission losses between power stations and the EV's while the rate of charging will effect the overall efficiency as well.