Explain a few things about permitted development to me.... TA!

[Coximus]

Rightio -
So I want to erect a shed / shelter for fodder storage on a field of 5.3 hectares, I farm about 35 Hectars (owned and FBT) and 20-60 hectares on handshakes, coffee and license varying from grass to volunteers and catch crops.

The shed is to store Hay for the sheep - espcially as some land is going into Stewardship and has the Hay making supplement on, so I need somewhere to stick the hay till winter feeding.
My previous shed was rented but has been developed into a house now, and Im in a popular etc (escape to country) living area, so expect alot of objections just for breathing, if it ever went to full planning (I have complaints from the parish council about the hedges not been trimmed in summer... even through its illegal... because its not "neat".

Im looking at serving the prior notification for a 10 x 25m building made from timber, 3+m in roof height, as long as I can stack inside im happy.

Now ive read all the posts and guidance - what could go wrong?
How and when does the council require "prior approval" Ie - making me jump through more hoops - and the nocation I want it in is dictated by access, its as close as possible to a level road access, everything else is steep. or lays soaking wet in winter due to being a hollow. I really dont want to put it anywhere else and cut up good land with tracks, or put the shed far from the road etc. I want it simple in a corner with flat access, 50m from the road, on a small bit of rocky ground thats never yeilded much.
So is prior approval something they can do to drag it out? make me move the location? Or does this not happen often? and KEY, can they refuse or is prior approval just the planners way of dragging things out or making money?.

I need the shed to store hay from the 5.3 ha its going to be on, and a further 9ha down the road.
All my nother land is too rough to hay make.

The local parish council objects to everything - on princilple as every farm ahas been sold off, every barn is a house, and these folk really dont like the idea of barns going up to replace (in my case literally) the barns they now live in.

 

[D14]

Rightio -
So I want to erect a shed / shelter for fodder storage on a field of 5.3 hectares, I farm about 35 Hectars (owned and FBT) and 20-60 hectares on handshakes, coffee and license varying from grass to volunteers and catch crops.

The shed is to store Hay for the sheep - espcially as some land is going into Stewardship and has the Hay making supplement on, so I need somewhere to stick the hay till winter feeding.
My previous shed was rented but has been developed into a house now, and Im in a popular etc (escape to country) living area, so expect alot of objections just for breathing, if it ever went to full planning (I have complaints from the parish council about the hedges not been trimmed in summer... even through its illegal... because its not "neat".

Im looking at serving the prior notification for a 10 x 25m building made from timber, 3+m in roof height, as long as I can stack inside im happy.

Now ive read all the posts and guidance - what could go wrong?
How and when does the council require "prior approval" Ie - making me jump through more hoops - and the nocation I want it in is dictated by access, its as close as possible to a level road access, everything else is steep. or lays soaking wet in winter due to being a hollow. I really dont want to put it anywhere else and cut up good land with tracks, or put the shed far from the road etc. I want it simple in a corner with flat access, 50m from the road, on a small bit of rocky ground thats never yeilded much.
So is prior approval something they can do to drag it out? make me move the location? Or does this not happen often? and KEY, can they refuse or is prior approval just the planners way of dragging things out or making money?.

I need the shed to store hay from the 5.3 ha its going to be on, and a further 9ha down the road.
All my nother land is too rough to hay make.

The local parish council objects to everything - on princilple as every farm ahas been sold off, every barn is a house, and these folk really dont like the idea of barns going up to replace (in my case literally) the barns they now live in.

Resign yourself to the fact you’ll need full planning. As soon as you submit your prior notification the planning authority will just be difficult with you, if they are as arsy as you suggest.

 

[Barleycorn]

I have never got PP putting up barns etc. As long as your barn is of reasonable dimensions just f do it. The onus is on the planning authority to prove that it is unacceptable, and they do not like losing appeals.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Providing you can justify the siting and need then Prior Approval shouldn't be a problem, the council can only assess it against Schedule 2, Part 6 of the GPDO so they have limited scope to be arsey.

 

[Longneck]

Should’ve put it in just before Christmas, then by the time the nimbys have realised you’ve already got it approved!

 

[Dry Rot]

The neighbour on three acres got PD for a 12m x 24m building for his four sheep. He did lie about owning another 25 acres but by the time "the mistake" was noticed the building was up. He's not a farmer, of course, but a builder and the shed is now used for processing fire wood, by the artic load. The sheep went into the deep freeze a long time ago. But this is the Highlands!

 

[honeyend]

Annex E: Permitted Development Rights For AgricultureAnd Forestry

http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/264/299/annexepps7.pdf

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Should’ve put it in just before Christmas, then by the time the nimbys have realised you’ve already got it approved!

That's funny, the fortnight before Xmas is when we seem to submit the most applications!

 

[Steevo]

The neighbour on three acres got PD for a 12m x 24m building for his four sheep. He did lie about owning another 25 acres but by the time "the mistake" was noticed the building was up. He's not a farmer, of course, but a builder and the shed is now used for processing fire wood, by the artic load. The sheep went into the deep freeze a long time ago. But this is the Highlands!

Sadly agricultural PD gets abused by quite a few people outside of agriculture.

 

[Still Farming]

That's funny, the fortnight before Xmas is when we seem to submit the most applications!

Their are all furlonged, working from home or GO SLOW ,so don't expect makes much difference these days ?????

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Their are all furlonged, working from home or GO SLOW ,so don't expect makes much difference these days ?????

After 10 months most planning authorities seem to have sorted themselves out, either working from home or staggered office hours. The early days of Lockdown (part 1) was a real s*** show!

 

[Dry Rot]

Sadly agricultural PD gets abused by quite a few people outside of agriculture.

Sadly, some planning departments cannot read their own guidance notes which refer to the case of MacPherson vs. Secretary of State. The judge's summing up makes the law crystal clear.

I don't know what the lawyers call it but I'd call it fraud and corruption. "The measure of civilisation is the people's laws and how they are administered". Members of Parliament take an oath to uphold these laws but what the hell. Sorry, I get a bit upset when people in positions of trust tell lies.

 

[Coximus]

Thanks guys, that clears some of it up.
Final question - if they ask for prior approval - can then they refuse it? The building would be the only building serving all the land mentioned.

 

[Forever Fendt]

I have never got PP putting up barns etc. As long as your barn is of reasonable dimensions just f do it. The onus is on the planning authority to prove that it is unacceptable, and they do not like losing appeals.

NO

 

[Forever Fendt]

Resign yourself to the fact you’ll need full planning. As soon as you submit your prior notification the planning authority will just be difficult with you, if they are as arsy as you suggest.

I would always explore the p/d route before full planning

 

[Forever Fendt]

Thanks guys, that clears some of it up.
Final question - if they ask for prior approval - can then they refuse it? The building would be the only building serving all the land mentioned.

I very much doubt it if its a genuine case ,It gives a greater chance if part of the building is open fronted ,if you think its going to be contentious I would leave a part open and fill in later once its up .You mentioned a building you previously had use of being converted if this was done under part q it will have removed your p/d rights but this is easy to check out (not by asking council) if you submit your application 1/2 days before parish council meeting it will be decided before there next meeting Go above and beyond the minimum requirements so send in elevation drawings and maps of the site and other land you farm and include all areas and put together an agricultural justification statement there's no need to say its rented just include it as area farmed if you get farm subsidy mention this as well if they have all of this they have no grounds to ask for more information as that gives them an automatic time extension ,remember there are strict time frames for them to deal with these ,submit it by hand and don't provide an email address on forms just a phone number as this limits the time they have make a decision and inform you of it as it has to reach you by post on 28 days or before and the first day is the next full day after submission even if its not a working day ,I always include the fact that it is needed to store hay undercover rather than make haylage to reduce the use of plastics and disposal costs and not having to rely on contractors to come and wrap it at a busy time and potentially losing the crop at a huge cost to the business if a contractor is not available .All the above has worked for me so if you fall within the legislation I can't see why it wouldn't work for you I will have perhaps done around 300 off these and never had one refused yet one submitted in early December for a max size grain store the customer was worried about the letter was here 6 days after submitting it stating prior approval not required

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I very much doubt it if its a genuine case ,It gives a greater chance if part of the building is open fronted ,if you think its going to be contentious I would leave a part open and fill in later once its up .You mentioned a building you previously had use of being converted if this was done under part q it will have removed your p/d rights but this is easy to check out (not by asking council) if you submit your application 1/2 days before parish council meeting it will be decided before there next meeting Go above and beyond the minimum requirements so send in elevation drawings and maps of the site and other land you farm and include all areas and put together an agricultural justification statement there's no need to say its rented just include it as area farmed if you get farm subsidy mention this as well if they have all of this they have no grounds to ask for more information as that gives them an automatic time extension ,remember there are strict time frames for them to deal with these ,submit it by hand and don't provide an email address on forms just a phone number as this limits the time they have make a decision and inform you of it as it has to reach you by post on 28 days or before and the first day is the next full day after submission even if its not a working day ,I always include the fact that it is needed to store hay undercover rather than make haylage to reduce the use of plastics and disposal costs and not having to rely on contractors to come and wrap it at a busy time and potentially losing the crop at a huge cost to the business if a contractor is not available .All the above has worked for me so if you fall within the legislation I can't see why it wouldn't work for you I will have perhaps done around 300 off these and never had one refused yet one submitted in early December for a max size grain store the customer was worried about the letter was here 6 days after submitting it stating prior approval not required

Fantastic response!