Fencing cost

[neilo]

Rent review is due soon and LL's agent is a greedy bugger who thinks it only goes one way. As last time, I expect it will come down to a discussion about the state of the place when I came here and how much I have spent sorting it out for them.
On a bit of informal advice from an agent, I have had a tally up of how much fencing I've put up, water pipes in, new drains, etc, all without LL input. I'm struggling to come up with a figure of how much would it cost them to get a contractor to do it?

Total is about 8000m of HT wire netting, 1800m of water pipe and 1000m of new drains.

Also 55 new gates & posts and 20 water troughs, but I can put a figure on those myself.

TIA.

 

[Bullbeeef]

I’m paying £6.10 per meter for stock net 2x Barb and chestnut posts.

 

[Tamar]

Stock fencing is about £10/m now fully erected

 

[neilo]

I’m paying £6.10 per meter for stock net 2x Barb and chestnut posts.

I assume that’s just materials?

 

[neilo]

Stock fencing is about £10/m now fully erected

I thought it must be somewhere near that figure now. Thank you.

Scary numbers if you took on a place today that needed a lot doing!

 

[ploughman1963]

I think most contractors would be £3-£3.50/m now depending on terrain?
I think you’d have to expand on what drains involved. I’ve done loads here - mostly replacing old with poly and gravel using a vee bucket - there’s a world of difference between that and a new system

 

[Suffolksucklers]

Countryside side stewardship pays £6.34 per metre. Supposed to be 50% if cost so would have thought you have a good argument at £12.68

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Is the John Nix pocket book still available? If it is, I would expect figures in there to be a good figure, that the agent couldn't argue with.

 

[Yale]

£12 per metre here from one contractor for proper posts.

 

[Kevtherev]

I do think LL need to take into account rent increases as the job won’t stand it imo.
The new word being sustainable so rents should be just that to keep folk on the land and taking care of it for future generations.
You cannot have the penny and the bun.

 

[Tubbylew]

Fg2 is £7.47 per meter, Lv7 livestock troughs £152.92 each, so it'll be well upwards of that expect the gateways would be around £200 each, would say supply and erect fencing would start at £10ish and could be up to £15ish plus, wouldn't know about drains.

 

[Spencer]

I do think LL need to take into account rent increases as the job won’t stand it imo.
The new word being sustainable so rents should be just that to keep folk on the land and taking care of it for future generations.
You cannot have the penny and the bun.

No but they can take it back and stick it in stewardship

 

[tepapa]

Can only comment on fencing but it obviously depends on materials and spec. If done with new creo materials then cost will be minimum £10/m but it could be up to £13-15/m for short runs, difficult terrain etc. Pulling out old fence and disposal could add another £2/m.

 

[Kevtherev]

No but they can take it back and stick it in stewardship

Maybe but the land will then fall into disrepair
Gates fences and drainage to begin with then unused livestock buildings will start going into disrepair.

 

[neilo]

I do think LL need to take into account rent increases as the job won’t stand it imo.
The new word being sustainable so rents should be just that to keep folk on the land and taking care of it for future generations.
You cannot have the penny and the bun.

This man likely wants the penny and the bun, along with the cherry on top. Tbf, it’s nothing personal, he’s just doing his job as instructed by the Estate trustees.
You will no doubt know that some of the rents tendered locally are a long way from sustainable, but LL happy to overlook that for the short term income.

 

[neilo]

Can only comment on fencing but it obviously depends on materials and spec. If done with new creo materials then cost will be minimum £10/m but it could be up to £13-15/m for short runs, difficult terrain etc. Pulling out old fence and disposal could add another £2/m.

A good chunk of it was with F&F creosote posts, and everything more recent with 15 yr UC4 posts. Mostly fairly short runs but on flat’ish (easy) terrain.
Plenty of old shite pulled out (mostly in bits) and disposed of. I hadn’t even thought of allowing for that tbh.

Bloody hell, it’s a scary number!

 

[neilo]

No but they can take it back and stick it in stewardship

Rents being offered locally are well in excess of what stewardship in Wales will return, even if LL was willing to watch their capital asset fall apart.

All of this place had been let go and was well on its way to that state when we took it on, on the basis that we sorted it out. I was happy to do so, with rent level set accordingly, but new agent now thinks it’s worth more because of what I’ve invested, hence the expected upcoming ‘discussion’.

 

[caveman]

All of this place had been let go and was well on its way to that state when we took it on, on the basis that we sorted it out. I was happy to do so, with rent level set accordingly, but new agent now thinks it’s worth more because of what I’ve invested, hence the expected upcoming ‘discussion’.

Just read and absorb what you've written above.

 

[Punch]

I’d think you’ve a strong case to use stewardship price as a base. As said, it is only set at a contribution towards costs, so could argue double it.
We’ve had similar over last couple of years and agent wouldn’t allow for improved soil indices. With fert values at all time highs, I’d argued was significant investment. Unfortunately our fbt didn’t specify anything for it.
Good luck with your “discussions”.

 

[sheepdogtrail]

Rents being offered locally are well in excess of what stewardship in Wales will return, even if LL was willing to watch their capital asset fall apart.

All of this place had been let go and was well on its way to that state when we took it on, on the basis that we sorted it out. I was happy to do so, with rent level set accordingly, but new agent now thinks it’s worth more because of what I’ve invested, hence the expected upcoming ‘discussion’.

The easiest way I found to move forward in situations like this is to just be honest with the capital improvements you have made including the soil fertility that your grazing animals have created. Soil fertility is not free, nor is your management of it.

You can hint that they should be paying you if they want to be fair and that for it to continue it has to be a win - win for you and the LL. Just push back on anything that seems unreasonable from your business point of view.

It seems that you have gotten some good figures here in this thread to have a better understanding of what your materials, labor and time should be valued at.