Ferguson TEF20: Heavy Oil Consumption after overhaul

[rhyds]

We rebuilt our TEF20's engine a while back using an Agriline piston, ring and liner kit plus some other new parts (bearings/timing chain/oil pump etc), however we're having issues with heavy oil consumption/burning oil, especially if the tractor is running under load, and oil is present in the exhaust pipe/running down the outside after prolonged running. When we were assembling the engine, a friend advised us not to fit the lower (below the gudgeon pin) oil control ring to the pistons, as apparently it was better if the tractor was being used across inclines, and seeing as how the original pistons only had the 3 compression rings and a single oil control ring we assumed it would be OK. However we now believe that advice might have been incorrect, given our current problems. Are we right in thinking that leaving the lower oil control ring out will cause considerable extra oil consumption like this? If so, is it possible to fit the lower ring to the piston from below without having to pull the crank out? We know you can't get the conrod through the liner to replace the piston rings from above, but were hoping not to have to split the tractor again. Also, we have had some issues with leaks around the cylinder head gasket area, would any issues here lead to oil being pushed in to the cylinders rather than it being the rings? We did have an issue just after the rebuild where the pressure relief valve didn't seem to work on the oil pump/filter housing, but we have since sorted that, but are worried we may have "blown" the gasket, especially as the head needed a bit of retorquing

 

[flywheel]

Gave your friend a slap...? Might be a reason pressure relief valve didn't work too much or too little oil pressure..strange that you had to retorque the head but sum engines from that era that was common .

 

[davidroberts30]

Has it had any HARD work

 

[AlCapone]

What grade oil are you using?
My experience of using old engines is they definitely run better on single grade oil
I use only Fuchs txe30
Also less leaks
Did you fit new valve seals?
It has been mentioned on this site about leaving out bottom oil ring
You bought new parts from agriline
I have heard many bad reports about the quality of their parts
I must go but I will return when I think of something

 

[davidroberts30]

was the head or block resurfaced?
yes you can pull the head and sump off and get the pistons out to add the rings
a lot of older engines in this era needed heads retorquing after it was warm

I've just reconditioned a engine here, she was smoky for the first hour or so and using a little oil, now its starting to settle down with work

if you pop the pistons out of yours take pictures of the rings from the side of the pistons so we can see the bedding in line on them

 

[rhyds]

Thanks for the replies

@davidroberts30 regarding hard work: Its not had much of that as its still a restoration project. I will suggest that my old man find something strenuous for the tractor to do. We fitted a refurbished head when we overhauled the engine, as the original had suffered some external damage at some point in its life. It had new valves and guides fitted by an engineering shop. We checked the block for straightness before fitting the head and it was fine.

@AlCapone

I think its 15w40 Ring Free that's in it currently, I'll double check.
Valve seals: I'll need to check what was done at the engineering shop, but I'm not sure there were any supplied in the valvetrain overhaul kit we bought, not were there any mentioned in the service manual either

 

[davidroberts30]

Thanks for the replies

@davidroberts30 regarding hard work: Its not had much of that as its still a restoration project. I will suggest that my old man find something strenuous for the tractor to do. We fitted a refurbished head when we overhauled the engine, as the original had suffered some external damage at some point in its life. It had new valves and guides fitted by an engineering shop. We checked the block for straightness before fitting the head and it was fine.

@AlCapone

I think its 15w40 Ring Free that's in it currently, I'll double check.
Valve seals: I'll need to check what was done at the engineering shop, but I'm not sure there were any supplied in the valvetrain overhaul kit we bought, not were there any mentioned in the service manual either

the stem seals should have been on the refurbed head

15w/40 is probably too good for it at the mo, try a straight 30 and work it
the new rings will need a few good hours graft to settle in

 

[MrNoo]

Used Agriline liners/pistons in one before and never again, it took an age for the rings to bed in and I never telly believed they did fully despite giving it 20 acres of ploughing, it always had a haze of oil following it around. I don't rate the Agriline stuff at all I'm afraid. I have done 4 TEF's with Bepco stuff and never had an issue, very little smoke and the rings seem to bed in very easily and quickly. I run all mine on 20:50 Castrol, Millers do the same cheaper.
I thought it was common practice to leave the bottom ring off on the 35 4 pots but have never done it on the TEF engines, all the ones I did I used all the rings (although can't remember how many rings each piston had)
Liners need to be just slightly proud of the block, forget how many thou but the Information is I'm sure floating about.
You won't get the rods/pistons out the top of the block I'm afraid, they come out the bottom and go in from the bottom and the rods are too wide for the bores. But easy enough to do, just a pain!!
I guess you have two options, give it some stick and hope the rings bed in (being mindful of the bottom ring missing) or strip it down again and re-do. I would if funds allow shell out and get a Bepco set of liners/pistons as in my eyes they are the best you can get. One of mine has had plenty of use as a match ploughing tractor and I rebuilt that engine 8 years ago when I started match ploughing and it's never had any issue, doesn't smoke and ticks over like a sewing machine.

 

[MrNoo]

Also to add, I always re-torque the head down after the engine has been run up to temp, I do it while it is still warm and never had an issue.

 

[Netherfield]

Leyland truck engines of the 60s and 70s didn't have the bottom oil ring fitted

It was expected at 30,000 miles the engine was stripped down a light run with a glaze buster, and then the rings were fitted, I'd a mate who was apprenticed at the local Leyland dealers, his father also had a local haulage company, they would do the strip down and change all the rings, we bought a used truck from them for a cattle truck, in the history it showed the rings done at 32,000 miles, which coincided with a test.
That engine had almost 200,000 miles on it and ran clean and sweet as a nut for the 3 or 4 years we had it.

 

[tomlad]

Do the valves on that engine have a oil seal ??

 

[MrNoo]

Do the valves on that engine have a oil seal ??

Pretty sure the TEF doesn't have valve seals but to be honest it's been a while since I did one!!

 

[rhyds]

Pretty sure the TEF doesn't have valve seals but to be honest it's been a while since I did one!!

This seems to be the case. Nobody lists valve seals for a Standard 20C diesel and I haven't seen mention of them in the service manuals.

 

[rhyds]

Hi All, thanks for the suggestions so far. We pulled the exhaust manifold today to have a look and saw a fair bit of oil in there.

Here's a video of the engine running and what happens if you crack the throttle open

Anyone got any ideas for us?

 

[Longpod]

I presume the new liners didnt have the notch cut in them like the originals? to allow the top of the piston to be pushed up above the block. This allowed access to the rings and ability to remove the gudgeon pin. When I did a TEF years ago, I cut the notch in the new liners. This allowed me to replace the piston and liners without removing the crank.

Also the cuff ring, fitted above the liner, do you have these? I had to have my replacements ground down as the replacements were sticking above the block the block and I wouldnt have been able to torque the head down propperly.

 

[Longpod]

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/ferguson-tef.90424/

 

[MrNoo]

To be fair I've seen far worse, expecting an Agriline kit to not smoke at all on start up and running straight after rebuild is expecting a bit much. The one I did smoked more than I do!!
What to do? Run it and give it a bit of work and see if the rings bed in over time?
Have it all apart again.
The cuff rings are an area where so many get them put back in wrong then wonder why they have problems (not saying this is your issue) Cuff rings have a 90 degree flat surface on one face and the opposing surface is slightly tapered with eg an 80 degree angle and these do get put in the wrong way around producing a high stand out from the block face.
Liner kits don't come with the slot in them, some cut them in but I have never done that as always had the engine to bits.
Does the engine start easily and run nicely barring the smoke of course??

 

[Chuckie]

It probably needs some running in oil and hard work, I've seen far worse

 

[rhyds]

Thanks for the suggestions. To answer the questions:

Engine performance: It starts very easily and pulls very well. However it seems that when we initially put the engine back together the governor on the injection pump was stuck, so until we freed that off the engine didn't get full fuel, so its possible it never quite ran in properly during the running in phase, so suggestions around the rings not bedding in might be part of it.

Liners/cuff rings: There's no slots in the bottom of the new liners. With the cuff rings pretty sure we did put them in the right way around. Do you know if you can get the pistons and rods out with the crank in place? I know they'll have to come out from below but is it possible without having to pull the crank out?

 

[Longpod]

Thanks for the suggestions. To answer the questions:

Engine performance: It starts very easily and pulls very well. However it seems that when we initially put the engine back together the governor on the injection pump was stuck, so until we freed that off the engine didn't get full fuel, so its possible it never quite ran in properly during the running in phase, so suggestions around the rings not bedding in might be part of it.

Liners/cuff rings: There's no slots in the bottom of the new liners. With the cuff rings pretty sure we did put them in the right way around. Do you know if you can get the pistons and rods out with the crank in place? I know they'll have to come out from below but is it possible without having to pull the crank out?

Unless you have the slit/notch in the bottom of the liner, I would say no. Crank out.