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Ferguson TEF20: Heavy Oil Consumption after overhaul
- Thread starter rhyds
- Start date
flywheel
Member
- Location
- wae up north
Gave your friend a slap...? Might be a reason pressure relief valve didn't work too much or too little oil pressure..strange that you had to retorque the head but sum engines from that era that was common .
davidroberts30
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
Has it had any HARD work
What grade oil are you using?
My experience of using old engines is they definitely run better on single grade oil
I use only Fuchs txe30
Also less leaks
Did you fit new valve seals?
It has been mentioned on this site about leaving out bottom oil ring
You bought new parts from agriline
I have heard many bad reports about the quality of their parts
I must go but I will return when I think of something
My experience of using old engines is they definitely run better on single grade oil
I use only Fuchs txe30
Also less leaks
Did you fit new valve seals?
It has been mentioned on this site about leaving out bottom oil ring
You bought new parts from agriline
I have heard many bad reports about the quality of their parts
I must go but I will return when I think of something
davidroberts30
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
was the head or block resurfaced?
yes you can pull the head and sump off and get the pistons out to add the rings
a lot of older engines in this era needed heads retorquing after it was warm
I've just reconditioned a engine here, she was smoky for the first hour or so and using a little oil, now its starting to settle down with work
if you pop the pistons out of yours take pictures of the rings from the side of the pistons so we can see the bedding in line on them
yes you can pull the head and sump off and get the pistons out to add the rings
a lot of older engines in this era needed heads retorquing after it was warm
I've just reconditioned a engine here, she was smoky for the first hour or so and using a little oil, now its starting to settle down with work
if you pop the pistons out of yours take pictures of the rings from the side of the pistons so we can see the bedding in line on them
Thanks for the replies
@davidroberts30 regarding hard work: Its not had much of that as its still a restoration project. I will suggest that my old man find something strenuous for the tractor to do. We fitted a refurbished head when we overhauled the engine, as the original had suffered some external damage at some point in its life. It had new valves and guides fitted by an engineering shop. We checked the block for straightness before fitting the head and it was fine.
@AlCapone
I think its 15w40 Ring Free that's in it currently, I'll double check.
Valve seals: I'll need to check what was done at the engineering shop, but I'm not sure there were any supplied in the valvetrain overhaul kit we bought, not were there any mentioned in the service manual either
@davidroberts30 regarding hard work: Its not had much of that as its still a restoration project. I will suggest that my old man find something strenuous for the tractor to do. We fitted a refurbished head when we overhauled the engine, as the original had suffered some external damage at some point in its life. It had new valves and guides fitted by an engineering shop. We checked the block for straightness before fitting the head and it was fine.
@AlCapone
I think its 15w40 Ring Free that's in it currently, I'll double check.
Valve seals: I'll need to check what was done at the engineering shop, but I'm not sure there were any supplied in the valvetrain overhaul kit we bought, not were there any mentioned in the service manual either
davidroberts30
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
the stem seals should have been on the refurbed head
15w/40 is probably too good for it at the mo, try a straight 30 and work it
the new rings will need a few good hours graft to settle in
- Location
- Cirencester
Used Agriline liners/pistons in one before and never again, it took an age for the rings to bed in and I never telly believed they did fully despite giving it 20 acres of ploughing, it always had a haze of oil following it around. I don't rate the Agriline stuff at all I'm afraid. I have done 4 TEF's with Bepco stuff and never had an issue, very little smoke and the rings seem to bed in very easily and quickly. I run all mine on 20:50 Castrol, Millers do the same cheaper.
I thought it was common practice to leave the bottom ring off on the 35 4 pots but have never done it on the TEF engines, all the ones I did I used all the rings (although can't remember how many rings each piston had)
Liners need to be just slightly proud of the block, forget how many thou but the Information is I'm sure floating about.
You won't get the rods/pistons out the top of the block I'm afraid, they come out the bottom and go in from the bottom and the rods are too wide for the bores. But easy enough to do, just a pain!!
I guess you have two options, give it some stick and hope the rings bed in (being mindful of the bottom ring missing) or strip it down again and re-do. I would if funds allow shell out and get a Bepco set of liners/pistons as in my eyes they are the best you can get. One of mine has had plenty of use as a match ploughing tractor and I rebuilt that engine 8 years ago when I started match ploughing and it's never had any issue, doesn't smoke and ticks over like a sewing machine.
I thought it was common practice to leave the bottom ring off on the 35 4 pots but have never done it on the TEF engines, all the ones I did I used all the rings (although can't remember how many rings each piston had)
Liners need to be just slightly proud of the block, forget how many thou but the Information is I'm sure floating about.
You won't get the rods/pistons out the top of the block I'm afraid, they come out the bottom and go in from the bottom and the rods are too wide for the bores. But easy enough to do, just a pain!!
I guess you have two options, give it some stick and hope the rings bed in (being mindful of the bottom ring missing) or strip it down again and re-do. I would if funds allow shell out and get a Bepco set of liners/pistons as in my eyes they are the best you can get. One of mine has had plenty of use as a match ploughing tractor and I rebuilt that engine 8 years ago when I started match ploughing and it's never had any issue, doesn't smoke and ticks over like a sewing machine.
- Location
- Cirencester
Also to add, I always re-torque the head down after the engine has been run up to temp, I do it while it is still warm and never had an issue.
Netherfield
Member
- Location
- West Yorkshire
Leyland truck engines of the 60s and 70s didn't have the bottom oil ring fitted
It was expected at 30,000 miles the engine was stripped down a light run with a glaze buster, and then the rings were fitted, I'd a mate who was apprenticed at the local Leyland dealers, his father also had a local haulage company, they would do the strip down and change all the rings, we bought a used truck from them for a cattle truck, in the history it showed the rings done at 32,000 miles, which coincided with a test.
That engine had almost 200,000 miles on it and ran clean and sweet as a nut for the 3 or 4 years we had it.
It was expected at 30,000 miles the engine was stripped down a light run with a glaze buster, and then the rings were fitted, I'd a mate who was apprenticed at the local Leyland dealers, his father also had a local haulage company, they would do the strip down and change all the rings, we bought a used truck from them for a cattle truck, in the history it showed the rings done at 32,000 miles, which coincided with a test.
That engine had almost 200,000 miles on it and ran clean and sweet as a nut for the 3 or 4 years we had it.
tomlad
Member
- Location
- nr. preston
Do the valves on that engine have a oil seal ??
- Location
- Cirencester
Pretty sure the TEF doesn't have valve seals but to be honest it's been a while since I did one!!
This seems to be the case. Nobody lists valve seals for a Standard 20C diesel and I haven't seen mention of them in the service manuals.
Longpod
Member
- Location
- Northamptonshire
I presume the new liners didnt have the notch cut in them like the originals? to allow the top of the piston to be pushed up above the block. This allowed access to the rings and ability to remove the gudgeon pin. When I did a TEF years ago, I cut the notch in the new liners. This allowed me to replace the piston and liners without removing the crank.
Also the cuff ring, fitted above the liner, do you have these? I had to have my replacements ground down as the replacements were sticking above the block the block and I wouldnt have been able to torque the head down propperly.
Also the cuff ring, fitted above the liner, do you have these? I had to have my replacements ground down as the replacements were sticking above the block the block and I wouldnt have been able to torque the head down propperly.
- Location
- Cirencester
To be fair I've seen far worse, expecting an Agriline kit to not smoke at all on start up and running straight after rebuild is expecting a bit much. The one I did smoked more than I do!!
What to do? Run it and give it a bit of work and see if the rings bed in over time?
Have it all apart again.
The cuff rings are an area where so many get them put back in wrong then wonder why they have problems (not saying this is your issue) Cuff rings have a 90 degree flat surface on one face and the opposing surface is slightly tapered with eg an 80 degree angle and these do get put in the wrong way around producing a high stand out from the block face.
Liner kits don't come with the slot in them, some cut them in but I have never done that as always had the engine to bits.
Does the engine start easily and run nicely barring the smoke of course??
What to do? Run it and give it a bit of work and see if the rings bed in over time?
Have it all apart again.
The cuff rings are an area where so many get them put back in wrong then wonder why they have problems (not saying this is your issue) Cuff rings have a 90 degree flat surface on one face and the opposing surface is slightly tapered with eg an 80 degree angle and these do get put in the wrong way around producing a high stand out from the block face.
Liner kits don't come with the slot in them, some cut them in but I have never done that as always had the engine to bits.
Does the engine start easily and run nicely barring the smoke of course??
Thanks for the suggestions. To answer the questions:
Engine performance: It starts very easily and pulls very well. However it seems that when we initially put the engine back together the governor on the injection pump was stuck, so until we freed that off the engine didn't get full fuel, so its possible it never quite ran in properly during the running in phase, so suggestions around the rings not bedding in might be part of it.
Liners/cuff rings: There's no slots in the bottom of the new liners. With the cuff rings pretty sure we did put them in the right way around. Do you know if you can get the pistons and rods out with the crank in place? I know they'll have to come out from below but is it possible without having to pull the crank out?
Engine performance: It starts very easily and pulls very well. However it seems that when we initially put the engine back together the governor on the injection pump was stuck, so until we freed that off the engine didn't get full fuel, so its possible it never quite ran in properly during the running in phase, so suggestions around the rings not bedding in might be part of it.
Liners/cuff rings: There's no slots in the bottom of the new liners. With the cuff rings pretty sure we did put them in the right way around. Do you know if you can get the pistons and rods out with the crank in place? I know they'll have to come out from below but is it possible without having to pull the crank out?
Longpod
Member
- Location
- Northamptonshire
Unless you have the slit/notch in the bottom of the liner, I would say no. Crank out.