Fertiliser price for those that miss it in Arable section

[Werzle]

i didnt realise how bad the situation was for stock farmers till i read this, ive bn speaking mostly grain guys that got fert cheap and selling wheat now, story couldnt be more different

Tbf if cattle prices do not drop its not so bad, cut fert by 50% and dont use a massive amount of fuel on a spring calving suckler herd anyway. Creep will be painfull later on but its only for a couple of months and cows are 100% forage fed. If cattle prices started to drop it would be a worry but looks unlikely.

 

[Cowabunga]

How do they go about policing that?

They just do a paper exercise I assume. As well as exporting 1000 tons I will be obliged to install extra storage for another 1000 tons.
At which point, I’m out. To paraphrase and misquote Marie Antoinette, let them eat cake!

 

[Bossfarmer]

Tbf if cattle prices do not drop its not so bad, cut fert by 50% and dont use a massive amount of fuel on a spring calving suckler herd anyway. Creep will be painfull later on but its only for a couple of months and cows are 100% forage fed. If cattle prices started to drop it would be a worry but looks unlikely.

Im cutting grazing fert, silage ground will still need 3cwt though to get the yield i aim for 15 bale/acre on young reseeds

 

[Henarar]

Im cutting grazing fert, silage ground will still need 3cwt though to get the yield i aim for 15 bale/acre on young reseeds

Must be like straw?

 

[milkloss]

I've got maybe ten tonne in the shed. Will usually buy a lorry load once the weaned calves are sold in the next few weeks but I won't be this year. For suckers it'd be throwing money away and looking at a loss. cattle Prices haven't seen enough lift to make me consider fert at the moment...... numbers will drop here And maybe quite significantly.

 

[harperfarmer]

We don't put any N on grazing ground and haven't done for a long time. Get paid for low N inputs on stewardship as well. So saving on inputs and getting paid for it, which is why I can't get my head around farmers saying "environmental schemes are done, rip it up, plant wheat etc etc". If anything there's even more benefits to them currently.

 

[TheRanger]

Should have put those dairy cows on @Bossfarmer, with milk soon hitting 40ppl

 

[Cowabunga]

We don't put any N on grazing ground and haven't done for a long time. Get paid for low N inputs on stewardship as well. So saving on inputs and getting paid for it, which is why I can't get my head around farmers saying "environmental schemes are done, rip it up, plant wheat etc etc". If anything there's even more benefits to them currently.

Are you paying rent or a mortgage? Probably not and you probably have enough acres to ranch it and live off your father’s efforts and the subsidy you now get on it. Every farm is different. Yours may not be quite like that but it doesn’t sound like you rely on food production as a business for your living.

 

[harperfarmer]

Are you paying rent or a mortgage? Probably not and you probably have enough acres to ranch it and live off your father’s efforts and the subsidy you now get on it. Every farm is different. Yours may not be quite like that but it doesn’t sound like you rely on food production as a business for your living.

We rent 1/3 of what we farm and are paying a mortgage on 50% of the remaining 2/3 that has another 15 years to run.

 

[harperfarmer]

Are you paying rent or a mortgage? Probably not and you probably have enough acres to ranch it and live off your father’s efforts and the subsidy you now get on it. Every farm is different. Yours may not be quite like that but it doesn’t sound like you rely on food production as a business for your living.

Just because there are other ways/means to make things pay doesn't mean that its wrong or that the person has it easy. One thing that stuck with me a long time ago is that there is only one guarantee with a high input high output system. But in all honesty you can think what you like it's water off a ducks back to me.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Hopefully some of the beauracratic nonsense like that will get left behind at least in the short term. If farmers can't grow any food because they can't afford fertiliser and there's no wheat or eggs or milk for Boris to have his egg and soldiers with his cup of tea every morning he might just tell them to forget that new legislation for a bit!

not Boris but Mark Drakeford, and remember the only job he has had is University Lecturer and Social Worker, so zero experience of working in the private sector and the Welsh Labour Party dislike the countryside.

 

[Cowabunga]

Just because there are other ways/means to make things pay doesn't mean that its wrong or that the person has it easy. One thing that stuck with me a long time ago is that there is only one guarantee with a high input high output system. But in all honesty you can think what you like it's water off a ducks back to me.

I am not making any judgement. As I said, every farm business is different and has different circumstances. What you do works for you but it seems to me that it is you that is making judgements about other businesses and telling them how it should be, but being sensitive when these differences are pointed out. If ranching works for you and your business, great. As I have said elsewhere more than once, we have no obligation to feed the nation, only to look after our own businesses.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Must be like straw?

volumes what i need they get too fat on anything shorter

 

[harperfarmer]

I am not making any judgement. As I said, every farm business is different and has different circumstances. What you do works for you but it seems to me that it is you that is making judgements about other businesses and telling them how it should be, but being sensitive when these differences are pointed out. If ranching works for you and your business, great. As I have said elsewhere more than once, we have no obligation to feed the nation, only to look after our own businesses.

No judgements here and definitely not telling anyone else what to do, I make enough of my own cock ups . And I never said I ranch anything, just find it surprising that so many farmers are quick to criticise environmental schemes, but bemoan their own input costs. I just use plenty clover in the leys and that takes care of that.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Should have put those dairy cows on @Bossfarmer, with milk soon hitting 40ppl

the guys i speak to are 33p and very unhappy

 

[Hesstondriver]

It makes my part load of lithan at £650 look cheap

 

[harperfarmer]

It would be very interesting to know what utilisation % of grass grown is on a lot of farms. The way I see it the moment you spend on it to grow more of it, unless you make total use of the extra production it's quite costly? I think when straw was so short/expensive a lot of farmers realised how little they can actually get away without using and I'm of the opinion the same will be of fertiliser. But that's only my opinion and its not to say its right or wrong. Edit. On grassland that is, not arable.

 

[DRC]

Fym and slurry is going to be worth it's weight in gold! And alternative ways of getting nutrients into the ground are going to become very popular.

I agree up to a point, but the cost of spreading muck and slurry is going up due to the fuel price . My contractor was charging me £43 hr for muck spreading this week, and said slurry on a longer haul would be working out at £60/hr.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

We don't put any N on grazing ground and haven't done for a long time. Get paid for low N inputs on stewardship as well. So saving on inputs and getting paid for it, which is why I can't get my head around farmers saying "environmental schemes are done, rip it up, plant wheat etc etc". If anything there's even more benefits to them currently.

I'll explain.

I claimed for low inputs for several years which seemed like money for nothing.

The trouble for me was that the restrictions on management which meant that rushes etc, could not be controlled and fym couldn't be applied sufficiently at the right times to maintain it.

You couldn't notice the decline in productivity from year to year but over a decade the drop was considerable.

Given the potential costs of all other inputs, being able to produce extra from the land which would be restricted to very low input would far outstrip the payments.

But that is how it is for my marginal land. Your low input land must be better which would also mean you are losing more potential?

 

[harperfarmer]

I'll explain.

I claimed for low inputs for a several years which seemed like money for nothing.

The trouble for me was the restrictions on management which meant that rushes etc, could not be controlled and fym couldn't be applied sufficiently at the right times to maintain it.

You couldn't notice the decline in productivity from year to year but over a decade the drop was considerable.

Given the potential costs of all other inputs, being able to produce extra from the land which would be restricted to very low input would far outstrip the payments.

But that is how it is for my marginal land. Your low input land must better which would also mean you are losing more potential?

That is interesting, and I can see where you're coming from. This wouldn't be marginal land but then neither would it be prime arable land. Permanent pasture as well. But as I say I would think it would be a good 20 years that we've not routinely applied any artificial N to grazing land and if anything we probably stock more heavily now but manage it better regards semi rotational grazing and rest periods etc. And I can fully see and appreciate in your situation it wasn't a good move long term. As has been said, lots of different scenarios.