France to link food prices to farmers’ cost of production!!!

[czechmate]

So you haven't costed it ?

Hay and straw? Yes of course and added the value of the muck back, and the wormer and the extra electric we use switching the lights on early as they come to load at 5.30 am and the coffee I give to the buyer when he comes to pick them...

 

[bobk]

Hay and straw? Yes of course and added the value of the muck back, and the wormer and the extra electric we use switching the lights on early as they come to load at 5.30 am and the coffee I give to the buyer when he comes to pick them...

And the margin over broutards is ..............

 

[czechmate]

And the margin over broutards is ..............

€0.33. Per 10

 

[bobk]

€0.33. Per 10

Sounds about right

 

[czechmate]

Sounds about right

It's the charging my time at €250/hour that kills it I think

 

[bobk]

It's the charging my time at €250/hour that kills it I think

No need to be flippant , you're the one complaining you haven't time to spit , yet you're finishing cattle for peanuts.

 

[Sparky270]

What's finished bulls making at the moment ?

 

[czechmate]

What's finished bulls making at the moment ?

About the same as always. Batch that we got paid this week was 3.85 and 3.90.

 

[Sparky270]

Ha

About the same as always. Batch that we got paid this week was 3.85 and 3.90.

hasnt changed much then !

 

[czechmate]

No need to be flippant , you're the one complaining you haven't time to spit , yet you're finishing cattle for peanuts.

I don't see they are related? Work is the problem, not money. Actually, if I could stand by and see uncut hedges, undug ditches, blocked drains, overflowing gutters... There wouldn't be a problem but I'm not made that way and there just arnt folk around here to do these jobs.
Having said that there is hope on the horizon

 

[Dave645]

I see what you are driving at but I do not agree. The effect of the subsidy in the example you give is to keep someone calling themselves a farmer as opposed to a farm worker.

Assuming they are in fact making the best possible use of the land then that usage will continue whether they are there or not

I would hope that most are at least trying to maximise returns and if their farming activities are depressing their incomes one would hope that long term, sense would prevail.

To some extent your right about farmers sense prevailing,
Farmers have no income guarantee, farm wokers do, a few years ago despite getting sub the farm lost more than I draw as a wage in one year,
So if we didn't have capital reserves to cope with bad years I would have infact earned nothing at all for an entire years work, the following year we made double my earnings in profit, the problem is farming is volitile what pays well one year may not the next and we don't work in an industry with fast turn arounds most are a year minimum, so before you know it the good profit you made last year with potatoes is this year is only a breakeven or loss, it's not that we have done anything different it's just the market has moved into over supply, and the year they were good money when you were planting them and making planting choices it looked no different from the last. It's the same for animals, you only get what you get on the day you take them to market, not the day your lamb is born or the day the tup serviced the ewe,
Farming has plenty of volatility in it from markets to the strength of the pound to world over supply, to the weather, we already gamble very big every year, the only sure thing has been the sub. If that gets taken away from small farmers I can see a lot dropping out just because they could work all year and make nothing for a whole years work, where the year before it would have been a profit for the same work. No other essential industries like water and power, don't know from one year to the next if they will make the money they need to live.

And someone has to be the farmer unless you prefer state owned farming.

 

[le bon paysan]

Well I wrote they eat 2 tonnes!

Of what ?

Whatever I have chosen to grow.
Barley always in there. Trit. Wheat, fed up with oats but new favorite is epotre. And now this year trying peas...

So you haven't costed it ?

So 380 Kg taking them up to 780 Kg = 400 Kg to put on a broutard ,after a beast gets to that start weight it has an FCE of 6 / 1. When it gets past 600 Kg this drops to an FCE of 8 / 1, so how do you do it on 2 tonne?
2017 Teagasc Beef Budgets have a start weight of 420 Kg [6 month finishing ] needing a sale price of e 4,21 Kg C .
[ 8 month finishing] requires a price of e 4,37 Kg C.
This is the Break even price, assuming NO Margin and No mortality.
When you do your costings what transfer price do you allow for your broutards?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

We used to live in the EU with our partners, France. Not for long. The French and Germans look after their farmers. Does anyone seriously believe that Westminster gives a sh1t?

They have a cute way to show it!

 

[Cowabunga]

They have a cute way to show it!

Our produce will have their traditional warm welcome when we leave the EU, I've no doubt.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Our produce will have their traditional warm welcome when we leave the EU, I've no doubt.

I still struggle to believe it will actually come to that.
Could well be wrong of course, I am on most other stuff..
But, after all that work to get in there, to pay Europe's bills.. why would you want to go again - to get reamed all over again out of spite?

Folk can possibly already tell the colonial view of Westminster via the undercurrent of many of the posts on here - ('thanks for the reaming, and the cold shoulder') but in my view it's absurdly optimistic to expect a going away present from Brussels.
However....

 

[kiwi pom]

id be very wary of some of the suggestions on here as the solution to post brexit Ag, i can see a lot of desperate fools throwing money at "diversifications" in highly competitive sectors putting money into a black hole, existing diversifications coming under a lot of new competition driving margins down for everyone, DEFINATELY not the way forward

Most of what been mentioned on this thread isn't diversification its marketing, something producers in any other industry have to do to survive. You don't have to because the government give you money just because you won the lucky gene pool and were born a farmers son in Scotland. If you make money your only focus is buying more land to expand your empire, you don't have to spend on marketing because people just take your product and pay you for it. Do you even know where it ends up?
My point is if you produce the same as everyone else you get world prices. If you want more for it you have to add value or cut out the middle man and do it yourself and yes this may use some of the money you were going to use to buy more land.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

To some extent your right about farmers sense prevailing,
Farmers have no income guarantee, farm wokers do, a few years ago despite getting sub the farm lost more than I draw as a wage in one year,
So if we didn't have capital reserves to cope with bad years I would have infact earned nothing at all for an entire years work, the following year we made double my earnings in profit, the problem is farming is volitile what pays well one year may not the next and we don't work in an industry with fast turn arounds most are a year minimum, so before you know it the good profit you made last year with potatoes is this year is only a breakeven or loss, it's not that we have done anything different it's just the market has moved into over supply, and the year they were good money when you were planting them and making planting choices it looked no different from the last. It's the same for animals, you only get what you get on the day you take them to market, not the day your lamb is born or the day the tup serviced the ewe,
Farming has plenty of volatility in it from markets to the strength of the pound to world over supply, to the weather, we already gamble very big every year, the only sure thing has been the sub. If that gets taken away from small farmers I can see a lot dropping out just because they could work all year and make nothing for a whole years work, where the year before it would have been a profit for the same work. No other essential industries like water and power, don't know from one year to the next if they will make the money they need to live.

And someone has to be the farmer unless you prefer state owned farming.

That neatly sums up the typical farmer attitude 'make it work, at all costs
I have read a lot of material on the subject of wealth creation, and the golden rule amongst business folk around the world is "pay yourself, first"
Which means of course, morale is high, you reward yourself properly as you would any other contractor/worker/professional in the business, for time.
However, many farmers seem to be content with working an 16+ hour day, and moaning about their lot "fudging weather" "next year, Rodney" "haven't got time for a holiday/grow a garden/mow the lawn/kill a mutton" and thus drastically diminish themselves.
So I pay myself, a good rate for my time, which encourages me to look for other avenues to put the funds back into the company.
After all, I am the staff, the agronomist, the livestock drafter, serviceman, gardener, cook, butler at times... and host of other things.
So I use my talents for others, and the income tops up the account nicely.
I am a tough boss but a fair one, and it helps a lot with morale when I invoice my own company and pay myself.

It drives much of the innovation, this extra bill to pay. A good thing to invest in, yourself.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Most of what been mentioned on this thread isn't diversification its marketing, something producers in any other industry have to do to survive. You don't have to because the government give you money just because you won the lucky gene pool and were born a farmers son in Scotland. If you make money your only focus is buying more land to expand your empire, you don't have to spend on marketing because people just take your product and pay you for it. Do you even know where it ends up?
My point is if you produce the same as everyone else you get world prices. If you want more for it you have to add value or cut out the middle man and do it yourself and yes this may use some of the money you were going to use to buy more land.

So, if I hand-craft a Model A in my workshop, using carbon-fibre and titanium and CAD etc, give it to a car-yard to see if they can sell it for me - you're saying I'm not going to be rich?
Isn't there a scheme for helping me survive?
I've simply got to get these things churned out, and inputs are bloddy expensive... but folk need cheap transport!!
What about, if I cut the hedge late in summer... I'll do anything!!!

Yes, you couldn't hardly make it up.
But unfortunately many farmers don't make the comparison to another industry and see what's wrong with their picture.
Everyone makes their own vintage vehicle, and expects to compete with Toyota for market share

 

[unlacedgecko]

That neatly sums up the typical farmer attitude 'make it work, at all costs
I have read a lot of material on the subject of wealth creation, and the golden rule amongst business folk around the world is "pay yourself, first"
Which means of course, morale is high, you reward yourself properly as you would any other contractor/worker/professional in the business, for time.
However, many farmers seem to be content with working an 16+ hour day, and moaning about their lot "fudging weather" "next year, Rodney" "haven't got time for a holiday/grow a garden/mow the lawn/kill a mutton" and thus drastically diminish themselves.
So I pay myself, a good rate for my time, which encourages me to look for other avenues to put the funds back into the company.
After all, I am the staff, the agronomist, the livestock drafter, serviceman, gardener, cook, butler at times... and host of other things.
So I use my talents for others, and the income tops up the account nicely.
I am a tough boss but a fair one, and it helps a lot with morale when I invoice my own company and pay myself.

It drives much of the innovation, this extra bill to pay. A good thing to invest in, yourself.

What a great way to look at things. Not come across that before. Any wealth creation links?

 

[unlacedgecko]

So, if I hand-craft a Model A in my workshop, using carbon-fibre and titanium and CAD etc, give it to a car-yard to see if they can sell it for me - you're saying I'm not going to be rich?
Isn't there a scheme for helping me survive?
I've simply got to get these things churned out, and inputs are bloddy expensive... but folk need cheap transport!!
What about, if I cut the hedge late in summer... I'll do anything!!!

Yes, you couldn't hardly make it up.
But unfortunately many farmers don't make the comparison to another industry and see what's wrong with their picture.
Everyone makes their own vintage vehicle, and expects to compete with Toyota for market share

Haven't you been paying attention? Farming is "special".