France to link food prices to farmers’ cost of production!!!

[Bossfarmer]

That's why my side line pays me big money, I decided if I was doing anything else with my time it had to garentee my self a good wage for my time, I keep it as a causal side line that pays well when I get an order, like most suggest, I produce ready to market items but wholesale the people I deal with add their cut but I set my margins up front and never below £60/hr when I do sell direct I double my money again. I have friends that do similar to me but use eBay as there outlet, it sounds good in practice but their margins are pegged by China, and postage and fees cut into that, and I doubt it comes to £15/hr from which they have to cover their overheads, some of my stuff turns £5 of materials into £90 of product or £180/270 retail. Which suits me, it's not stuff you will ever sell in a normal shop, Or sell on eBay or locally. It's all custom items to my clients wishes. (No I am not telling you what it is)

On a side note some others have said "farmings special" in not a nice way, it is and it isn't could the world live without a farming industry, the answer is no, but the reality is we could manage with less farmers, it's not a nice picture for us smaller farmers to see.
But you should be glad we are not all business men that run at the first loss we often put up with very poor returns far less than anyone in their right mind would put up with. If not for us who would feed you all.
The farming world has more mugs than its rightful share, if they all start putting business hats on who will be left farming the land. My side line earns me 6 times my farm hourly rate, but we family farmers are stupidly loyal to our farms. I think it would be universally true for the majority of farmers they could earn more from less work outside farming, but they wouldn't be there own boss.

And if you think the picture is better for big farmers your wrong, it's just as bad if not worse it's just the good years for them are very good and with the larger diversity that a big farm can provide the downs can be less bad, does that mean they can manage without sub it should but, are they all in the position to manage without it, or have they relied on it so it's integral to their business I would say yes more so, as it's a far bigger amount. More so called big farms have gone bust over the years than small farms, most small farms retire and sell up the big ones seem to go bust.

As for special case no not really the govermant did it to the coal miners they stop subsidising them and it dropped the bottom out of the industry, was it the right call I am not sure, Would it have been cheaper supporting the mines to stay open at least the ones close to profitable, or pay income support to all the unemployed miners they ended up doing and all the people in the support industries.
Miners like farmers made money from nothing they dug out coal we grow crops, there are not many primary industries that provide nessery items, we have the power and fuel industry the water industry and food industry they are the bottom line, so the question is where do you want your food grown, if your happy for it to go mostly overseas, and your happy that food security will be in the hands of foreign trade deals and tariffs, and availability is 100% garenteed then throw the dice drop subs. If not you have to find away to keep farmers chugging along in a growingly expensive and risky industry, you have also to encourage a new generation into it. And all that also risks increased shop prices for your food, for no other reason but the food miles it will travel. If all lamb production stopped in the uk it would increase demand on imports any shortage in availability in the local foreign market you paying through the nose for it, and once that uk production goes it's unlikly to come back, just like the coal mines shutting once they did they never reopened, so be sure your never going to need us before you pull the plug, or be very sure of the outcome when you pull the plug.
I have gone on to long as normal ...lol.

Well said food prices will rise in the u subs go and massively if food shortages occr much more to the av person that they pay in sub, lets be realistic is massive companies that pay most or sub they pay most the tax and the av consumer benefits from it

 

[Bossfarmer]

news just in

The richest 1% pay 25% of all tax in the UK
The poorest 50% pay 10% of the tax bill

 

[Kiwi Pete]

thats mabye because you have less than 1/10th of the people to feed on the same landmass?

Which is why most of our produce is exported - agriculture is our biggest earner, still no support though.

Next?

 

[Bossfarmer]

Which is why most of our produce is exported - agriculture is our biggest earner, still no support though.

Next?

if food securitys never going to be an issue theres no real reason to support the farmers, the opposite is true in the UK

 

[Kiwi Pete]

als

also has it occured to you that you have the same latitude as Italy and can grow a bigger variety of things and have much more grass growth, less housing costs for livestock??

Yep.
We don't have a gulf stream either.
Tell me, does Italy get the CAP by any chance?

Next?

 

[Bossfarmer]

Which is why most of our produce is exported - agriculture is our biggest earner, still no support though.

Next?

id also like to add before subs were removed your farmers were very inefficient which is why many have survived(huge scope to improve) farmers were getting scanning % of less than 100% in sheep, uk farmers are already achieving good lambing percentages/mortality rates/calving %s and weaning percentages in cattle and it pays less than the minimum wage(av farm profit £12,400 in scotland last year) WITH subs, so tell me where is the massive scope for improvement that they can survive without any support??

 

[Bossfarmer]

Yep.
We don't have a gulf stream either.
Tell me, does Italy get the CAP by any chance?

Next?

yes it does and will continue to do so after brexit so as you see many of our competitors have warmer climates like you AND get more sub than us already, why would we remove our main lifeline that helps us compete?

 

[czechmate]

No idea what "good cows" is supposed to mean. I asked what you allowed for your transfer cost?

Cost of FCO 8 Vaccine is € 1, 83 each , they need 2 jabs 3 weeks apart. Needs your Vet to do the jab. Sanitaire standard charge.

Never had a vet do an injection so I don't know what a Sanitaire standard charge is. The guy we sold a load of grass to was complaining about the cost of vaccinating though.
I don't understand where I am supposed to "allow" anything. Only one business here, nothing needs transferring anywhere? If you mean about budgets for my own amusement, then I would allow what I could sell it for, I don't see what other figure you could concider?.

If you are saying it's not possible they grow what they do on the grain I say they eat, maybe the discrepancy is from the hay they eat?

I am never sure why you and Howard like to pull what I do apart? Tbh, I don't even have any idea at all what Howard does now, farming wise and regarding limousin cows here, we were just having a discussion yesterday, coming to the conclusion that for every single brown cow farmer we know, there is a different idea about how to farm them.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

yes it does and will continue to do so after brexit so as you see many of our competitors have warmer climates like you AND get more sub than us already, why would we remove our main lifeline that helps us compete?

So my mean annual temperature is 1.4°C above London's 10.4 degrees... with a foot more rainfall, stronger winds and still no backing from the government...

What's next?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

id also like to add before subs were removed your farmers were very inefficient which is why many have survived(huge scope to improve) farmers were getting scanning % of less than 100% in sheep, uk farmers are already achieving good lambing percentages/mortality rates/calving %s and weaning percentages in cattle and it pays less than the minimum wage(av farm profit £12,400 in scotland last year) WITH subs, so tell me where is the massive scope for improvement that they can survive without any support??

We didn't have any need to be efficient at lambing in the 70s because wool was worth solid money, now it isn't.

Next?

 

[le bon paysan]

Never had a vet do an injection so I don't know what a Sanitaire standard charge is. The guy we sold a load of grass to was complaining about the cost of vaccinating though.
I don't understand where I am supposed to "allow" anything. Only one business here, nothing needs transferring anywhere? If you mean about budgets for my own amusement, then I would allow what I could sell it for, I don't see what other figure you could concider?.

If you are saying it's not possible they grow what they do on the grain I say they eat, maybe the discrepancy is from the hay they eat?

I am never sure why you and Howard like to pull what I do apart? Tbh, I don't even have any idea at all what Howard does now, farming wise and regarding limousin cows here, we were just having a discussion yesterday, coming to the conclusion that for every single brown cow farmer we know, there is a different idea about how to farm them.

Your transfer cost is what you put your broutard at as it enters the finishing phase ie;
You get €1900 per finished beast
It costs €850 in fixed and variable costs to get it to 750Kg (teagasc is nearer €900)
You could have sold that beast at 9 months of age for €1030, less charges = €1000 this is your transfer cost.
€1900 -
€1000 -
€850 =
Margin € 50,00 per Hd.

Cereal etc. should be allocated at COP or what you can sell it for whichever is greater.

It doesn't cost me anything because it's already here doesn't work for long.

You are the one who complains the workload impinges on your lifestyle . Do Me and Howard pull you apart ? We point out things like the above, this is not pulling you apart, it's saying I for one cannot find the huge margins that you state you make.
The above supposed margin is why mine go on the wagon off the cow.There is simply not the money earn-able from fattening to invest in the infrastructure to finish cattle. I at my age and health do not need the workload either.

 

[czechmate]

Your transfer cost is what you put your broutard at as it enters the finishing phase ie;
You get €1900 per finished beast
It costs €850 in fixed and variable costs to get it to 750Kg (teagasc is nearer €900)
You could have sold that beast at 9 months of age for €1030, less charges = €1000 this is your transfer cost.
€1900 -
€1000 -
€850 =
Margin € 50,00 per Hd.

Cereal etc. should be allocated at COP or what you can sell it for whichever is greater.

It doesn't cost me anything because it's already here doesn't work for long.

You are the one who complains the workload impinges on your lifestyle . Do Me and Howard pull you apart ? We point out things like the above, this is not pulling you apart, it's saying I for one cannot find the huge margins that you state you make.
The above supposed margin is why mine go on the wagon off the cow.There is simply not the money earn-able from fattening to invest in the infrastructure to finish cattle. I at my age and health do not need the workload either.

Yup, I would pack them in but petra wants to do them. Also we wouldn't get headage payment on any extra cows, so that would make extra broutards less profitable. To use the farms and systems to their most, there needs to be sheep here but I'm certainly not getting into that. Growing cereals here, esp for sale to co ops when you might not make the SW isn't reliable enough for my tastes. Growing hay is fine but I imagine selling is unreliable. So hard to know where to go other than carry on where we are.
I don't think I ever moan about cash, just work load and that is not through not being able to pay but rather not being able to find anyone (although I do think we have cracked that now)

I also think it costs us nearer €550 than your €850 which of course changes the margin from €50 to €350 which is a big difference.

Edit to add. Of course one other avenue is growing heifers. We have 90 weaned grazing heifers at the mo from 10 months to 3 years. Maybe that is something of the future but a cash flow nightmare and they are much harder to work with than bulls. GLBV like them though

 

[Bossfarmer]

So my mean annual temperature is 1.4°C above London's 10.4 degrees... with a foot more rainfall, stronger winds and still no backing from the government...

What's next?

Back up a bit Londons a far cry from northern Scotland!

 

[Bossfarmer]

We didn't have any need to be efficient at lambing in the 70s because wool was worth solid money, now it isn't.

Next?

Exactly so ur admitting there was huge scope to improve, most of the farmers in Scotland are achieving respectable performance across their farms already low prices have forced them to be more efficient to survive so theres not much scope in which to bridge the gap if subs are removed, farm debt is at record levels with rising costs and poor prices theres no next you need a reality check when comparing the two

 

[digger64]

Exactly so ur admitting there was huge scope to improve, most of the farmers in Scotland are achieving respectable performance across their farms already low prices have forced them to be more efficient to survive so theres not much scope in which to bridge the gap if subs are removed, farm debt is at record levels with rising costs and poor prices theres no next you need a reality check when comparing the two

Have you ever considered that they might be doing it wrong or doing it in the wrong place or paying to much for land because of subsidized financial signals and pointers they have recieved from the past ?

 

[hillman]

I thought that prices where linked to our production costs at the moment, all the abbitators /supermarkets benchmark a certain %of the top producer and therefore that's where the returns in possibly 90% of the cases are set ?
Price plus a wee scrap to live or invest on on !

 

[Bossfarmer]

Have you ever considered that they might be doing it wrong or doing it in the wrong place or paying to much for land because of subsidized financial signals and pointers they have recieved from the past ?

in a few cases yes the majority no, no system is or will ever be perfect

 

[bobk]

Never had a vet do an injection so I don't know what a Sanitaire standard charge is. The guy we sold a load of grass to was complaining about the cost of vaccinating though.
I don't understand where I am supposed to "allow" anything. Only one business here, nothing needs transferring anywhere? If you mean about budgets for my own amusement, then I would allow what I could sell it for, I don't see what other figure you could concider?.

If you are saying it's not possible they grow what they do on the grain I say they eat, maybe the discrepancy is from the hay they eat?

I am never sure why you and Howard like to pull what I do apart? Tbh, I don't even have any idea at all what Howard does now, farming wise and regarding limousin cows here, we were just having a discussion yesterday, coming to the conclusion that for every single brown cow farmer we know, there is a different idea about how to farm them.

Probably because you've never asked , too busy building an empire for yourselves .

 

[czechmate]

Probably because you've never asked , too busy building an empire for yourselves .

 

[bobk]