FT

[martian]

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on.ft.com

In this morning's paper. You never know what you're going to find

 

[sjt01]

Subscribe to the Financial Times

A subscription to the Financial Times provides you with the insights and perspective you need to succeed, now.

on.ft.com

In this morning's paper. You never know what you're going to find

Unfortunately it is behind a paywall. Nice to know they area aware though.

 

[martian]

Annoying...it was fine a while ago. Brilliant article though

 

[Will Blackburn]

Here,View attachment Attachment-1.pdf

 

[Grass And Grain]

Just to take the contrary stance, and to fuel the debate, approximately 100% of the veg and root crops are grown following the plough.

Meanwhile, over 50% of combinable crops go for animal feed, with the resultant inefficiencies and greenhouse gas emissions.

Unbelievably, these combinable crop producers have been getting extra DEFRA subsidies to buy direct drills.

And do you know what? The veg producers who plough to produce good nutritious carrots, parsnips, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, etc. (lots of our good 5 a day) - well they got precisely zero extra farming subsidies because a direct drill was no good to them.

And do you know what the result of this has been? Well I'll tell you. The terrible GHG producing livestock industry has become more efficient due to all the subsidised direct drills. And all those veg growers have had to put their prices up because they haven't had any subs to buy their machinery with, meaning low income families struggle to afford the fruit and veg they need.

I say give those fruit and veg growers a sub to replace their ploughs and power harrows.

And do you know the real scandal in all this. The secret that the direct drillers dont want anyone to know (especially when they are receiving their £50,000 LEADER grant to buy their direct drill). To combat the grass weed problems these direct drillers have to grow a lot of spring barley.

And do you know where this spring barley goes? It gets made into whisky and beer. They ferment it, which produces CO2. Yes, that's right, CO2! It then produces alcohol, which has absolutely zero nutritional use, and in fact is bad for our health. Then do ypu know what, the government then TAX the alcohol which was produced at lower cost by the subsidised direct drill.

The world's gone mad.

So MP's, DEFRA and members of the public, please dont let these so called conservation ag do-gooders kid you into buying their next drill with taxpayers money. Please give grants for new ploughs.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Just to take the contrary stance, and to fuel the debate, approximately 100% of the veg and root crops are grown following the plough.

Meanwhile, over 50% of combinable crops go for animal feed, with the resultant inefficiencies and greenhouse gas emissions.

Unbelievably, these combinable crop producers have been getting extra DEFRA subsidies to buy direct drills.

And do you know what? The veg producers who plough to produce good nutritious carrots, parsnips, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, etc. (lots of our good 5 a day) - well they got precisely zero extra farming subsidies because a direct drill was no good to them.

And do you know what the result of this has been? Well I'll tell you. The terrible GHG producing livestock industry has become more efficient due to all the subsidised direct drills. And all those veg growers have had to put their prices up because they haven't had any subs to buy their machinery with, meaning low income families struggle to afford the fruit and veg they need.

I say give those fruit and veg growers a sub to replace their ploughs and power harrows.

And do you know the real scandal in all this. The secret that the direct drillers dont want anyone to know (especially when they are receiving their £50,000 LEADER grant to buy their direct drill). To combat the grass weed problems these direct drillers have to grow a lot of spring barley.

And do you know where this spring barley goes? It gets made into whisky and beer. They ferment it, which produces CO2. Yes, that's right, CO2! It then produces alcohol, which has absolutely zero nutritional use, and in fact is bad for our health. Then do ypu know what, the government then TAX the alcohol which was produced at lower cost by the subsidised direct drill.

The world's gone mad.

So MP's, DEFRA and members of the public, please dont let these so called conservation ag do-gooders kid you into buying their next drill with taxpayers money. Please give grants for new ploughs.

In reality there is very little nutrition in fruit and veg barring a few vitamins and fibre. We weren't designed to eat carbohydrates in any great quantity or purity that modern cereals or potatoes give us. They are only fit for feeding to livestock. The result of the present human carbohydrate feeding frenzy is obesity and type 2 diabetes.

There is no substitute for animal proteins and fats in the human diet to maintain optimum metabolic health.

 

[GeorgeK]

Good job they're optimistic, with 1000ha that's over £200,000 subsidy every year going

 

[onesiedale]

The world's gone mad.

So MP's, DEFRA and members of the public, please dont let these so called conservation ag do-gooders kid you into buying their next drill with taxpayers money. Please give grants for new ploughs.

. . . or even better, just give the subsidies to the livestock farmers maintaining Permanent Pasture and a 100% grazing based system!
Trouble with grant aiding any 'system' is that it encourages capital investment which, by default of the grant, becomes over valued and then ultimately RoC becomes much reduced. Therefore the treadmill continues.

The paradigm shift has got to be towards investing in Natural Capital. There are many ways to achieve this both for the veg grower, the DD'er and the stockman. The biggest step is the first and that has to take place in everyone's mind. Or as Doug Avery would tell you, it's all about your Top Paddock thinking.

 

[ajd132]

Just to take the contrary stance, and to fuel the debate, approximately 100% of the veg and root crops are grown following the plough.

Meanwhile, over 50% of combinable crops go for animal feed, with the resultant inefficiencies and greenhouse gas emissions.

Unbelievably, these combinable crop producers have been getting extra DEFRA subsidies to buy direct drills.

And do you know what? The veg producers who plough to produce good nutritious carrots, parsnips, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, etc. (lots of our good 5 a day) - well they got precisely zero extra farming subsidies because a direct drill was no good to them.

And do you know what the result of this has been? Well I'll tell you. The terrible GHG producing livestock industry has become more efficient due to all the subsidised direct drills. And all those veg growers have had to put their prices up because they haven't had any subs to buy their machinery with, meaning low income families struggle to afford the fruit and veg they need.

I say give those fruit and veg growers a sub to replace their ploughs and power harrows.

And do you know the real scandal in all this. The secret that the direct drillers dont want anyone to know (especially when they are receiving their £50,000 LEADER grant to buy their direct drill). To combat the grass weed problems these direct drillers have to grow a lot of spring barley.

And do you know where this spring barley goes? It gets made into whisky and beer. They ferment it, which produces CO2. Yes, that's right, CO2! It then produces alcohol, which has absolutely zero nutritional use, and in fact is bad for our health. Then do ypu know what, the government then TAX the alcohol which was produced at lower cost by the subsidised direct drill.

The world's gone mad.

So MP's, DEFRA and members of the public, please dont let these so called conservation ag do-gooders kid you into buying their next drill with taxpayers money. Please give grants for new ploughs.

It’s not even subsidising the people buying the drill, it’s the people who make the drill, often German!

 

[Macsky]

In reality there is very little nutrition in fruit and veg barring a few vitamins and fibre. We weren't designed to eat carbohydrates in any great quantity or purity that modern cereals or potatoes give us. They are only fit for feeding to livestock. The result of the present human carbohydrate feeding frenzy is obesity and type 2 diabetes.

There is no substitute for animal proteins and fats in the human diet to maintain optimum metabolic health.

I disagree, I fully support whole meat consumption, but there is a heap of phytochemicals in fruit and veg, especially green veg, that is paramount to health, maybe not so much in the starchy veg, but some broccoli or asparagus beside your steak will do you a lot of good, and an apple or a banana for a pudding.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Far too much sugar in bananas and apples, broccoli is fine as a side.

 

[Macsky]

Far too much sugar in bananas and apples, broccoli is fine as a side.

It’s buffered by the fact that it comes wrapped in its own fibre, fruit juice is another thing altogether tho.

 

[7610 super q]

Just to take the contrary stance, and to fuel the debate, approximately 100% of the veg and root crops are grown following the plough.

Meanwhile, over 50% of combinable crops go for animal feed, with the resultant inefficiencies and greenhouse gas emissions.

Unbelievably, these combinable crop producers have been getting extra DEFRA subsidies to buy direct drills.

And do you know what? The veg producers who plough to produce good nutritious carrots, parsnips, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, etc. (lots of our good 5 a day) - well they got precisely zero extra farming subsidies because a direct drill was no good to them.

And do you know what the result of this has been? Well I'll tell you. The terrible GHG producing livestock industry has become more efficient due to all the subsidised direct drills. And all those veg growers have had to put their prices up because they haven't had any subs to buy their machinery with, meaning low income families struggle to afford the fruit and veg they need.

I say give those fruit and veg growers a sub to replace their ploughs and power harrows.

And do you know the real scandal in all this. The secret that the direct drillers dont want anyone to know (especially when they are receiving their £50,000 LEADER grant to buy their direct drill). To combat the grass weed problems these direct drillers have to grow a lot of spring barley.

And do you know where this spring barley goes? It gets made into whisky and beer. They ferment it, which produces CO2. Yes, that's right, CO2! It then produces alcohol, which has absolutely zero nutritional use, and in fact is bad for our health. Then do ypu know what, the government then TAX the alcohol which was produced at lower cost by the subsidised direct drill.

The world's gone mad.

So MP's, DEFRA and members of the public, please dont let these so called conservation ag do-gooders kid you into buying their next drill with taxpayers money. Please give grants for new ploughs.

Top post. TBH, I don't care how others establish their crops. I'd give no till a go myself, as it would halve my workload, but the cost of the drill itself puts me off as does the extra Roundup usage. What bothers me is that the ignorant powers that be are lapping all this re gen ag stuff up, and are forming policy to divert funds away from one sector to another. Looks like there'll be no subs for the masses in Wales in a years time, but grants will be available to large scale growers to buy expensive new drills that frankly they could have afforded without the grant.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Top post. TBH, I don't care how others establish their crops. I'd give no till a go myself, as it would halve my workload, but the cost of the drill itself puts me off as does the extra Roundup usage. What bothers me is that the ignorant powers that be are lapping all this re gen ag stuff up, and are forming policy to divert funds away from one sector to another. Looks like there'll be no subs for the masses in Wales in a years time, but grants will be available to large scale growers to buy expensive new drills that frankly they could have afforded without the grant.

Quite.

There's nothing wrong with looking after your soil. And if you practice so called conservation ag, then fine. Personally I plough, but with some grass leys in the rotation and fym. I'm also very happy to look to some direct drilling as we move forward.

It's just when you actually think about it, most of these guys aren't doing anything to supply the UK's field veg requirements.

My gripe is not really with someone who farms holistically (if you call lashing glyphosate about farming holistically), but probably more with the twonks in government that swallow the rhetoric and go dishing out grants for direct drills, but then wont give the carrot grower a grant for a plough

The carrot grower needs the new plough just as much as the spring malting barley grower needs a direct drill to produce alcohol which damages peoples' health.

 

[ajd132]

I think grants for drills is pointless and only benefits the manufacturers.
however many of the principles or regen ag are applicable to all and should not be ignored or reduced down to ‘direct drilling’

 

[bitwrx]

Thanks @Will Blackburn for posting the PDF. Brilliant article, as you say @martian. That John Cherry chap speaks sense.

 

[E_B]

@Feldspar posted quotes on twitter from Dieter Helm recently which sadly ties the pieces together, signalling the deathknell for UK agriculture if the course we are on continues on its current trajectory.

In an effort to offload its environmental obligations elsewhere, this government will incentivise 'regenerative' commodity production for exporting and gradually pull the curtain down on domestic livestock, seeking to use former grazing pasture as a big carbon sink. Arable farmers will go along happily because they've got more worms per spadeful than when they used to pull cultivators around. Maybe glyposate will have a stay of execution during this process. The saved cultivation passes will be a drop in the ocean compared to the future losses caused by the scrappage of red diesel duty exemption. Agriculture is of little economic nor political importance to this Government and we're all on the table as a bargaining chip for trade deals as eventual carbon capturers, no longer primarily food producers. I say this as a livestock farmer, and someone who got a grant on a direct drill. We will probably end up in reverse auctions with skyscraper sized carbon filters.

 

[yellow belly]

Veg producers use more glyphosate per ha than a notill cereal producer as they have no alternative
a lot of veg ends up in livestock

 

[Hindsight]

Just to take the contrary stance, and to fuel the debate, approximately 100% of the veg and root crops are grown following the plough.

Meanwhile, over 50% of combinable crops go for animal feed, with the resultant inefficiencies and greenhouse gas emissions.

Unbelievably, these combinable crop producers have been getting extra DEFRA subsidies to buy direct drills.

And do you know what? The veg producers who plough to produce good nutritious carrots, parsnips, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, etc. (lots of our good 5 a day) - well they got precisely zero extra farming subsidies because a direct drill was no good to them.

And do you know what the result of this has been? Well I'll tell you. The terrible GHG producing livestock industry has become more efficient due to all the subsidised direct drills. And all those veg growers have had to put their prices up because they haven't had any subs to buy their machinery with, meaning low income families struggle to afford the fruit and veg they need.

I say give those fruit and veg growers a sub to replace their ploughs and power harrows.

And do you know the real scandal in all this. The secret that the direct drillers dont want anyone to know (especially when they are receiving their £50,000 LEADER grant to buy their direct drill). To combat the grass weed problems these direct drillers have to grow a lot of spring barley.

And do you know where this spring barley goes? It gets made into whisky and beer. They ferment it, which produces CO2. Yes, that's right, CO2! It then produces alcohol, which has absolutely zero nutritional use, and in fact is bad for our health. Then do ypu know what, the government then TAX the alcohol which was produced at lower cost by the subsidised direct drill.

The world's gone mad.

So MP's, DEFRA and members of the public, please dont let these so called conservation ag do-gooders kid you into buying their next drill with taxpayers money. Please give grants for new ploughs.

You forgot to mention the glyphosate as an integral component of direct drilling, wheras not always required for plough based which buries the trash. Just like to poke and fuel a good fire on a winters evening. Do like a few roaring flames.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Just to take the contrary stance, and to fuel the debate, approximately 100% of the veg and root crops are grown following the plough.

Meanwhile, over 50% of combinable crops go for animal feed, with the resultant inefficiencies and greenhouse gas emissions.

Unbelievably, these combinable crop producers have been getting extra DEFRA subsidies to buy direct drills.

And do you know what? The veg producers who plough to produce good nutritious carrots, parsnips, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, etc. (lots of our good 5 a day) - well they got precisely zero extra farming subsidies because a direct drill was no good to them.

And do you know what the result of this has been? Well I'll tell you. The terrible GHG producing livestock industry has become more efficient due to all the subsidised direct drills. And all those veg growers have had to put their prices up because they haven't had any subs to buy their machinery with, meaning low income families struggle to afford the fruit and veg they need.

I say give those fruit and veg growers a sub to replace their ploughs and power harrows.

And do you know the real scandal in all this. The secret that the direct drillers dont want anyone to know (especially when they are receiving their £50,000 LEADER grant to buy their direct drill). To combat the grass weed problems these direct drillers have to grow a lot of spring barley.

And do you know where this spring barley goes? It gets made into whisky and beer. They ferment it, which produces CO2. Yes, that's right, CO2! It then produces alcohol, which has absolutely zero nutritional use, and in fact is bad for our health. Then do ypu know what, the government then TAX the alcohol which was produced at lower cost by the subsidised direct drill.

The world's gone mad.

So MP's, DEFRA and members of the public, please dont let these so called conservation ag do-gooders kid you into buying their next drill with taxpayers money. Please give grants for new ploughs.

There are a lot of people growing roots and veg on a garden scale using no dig, regenerative methods. I often wonder if technology will one day enable those methods to be scaled up, to a commercial, field scale.