Grass OR muck for grain yield??

[Bossfarmer]

just curious as to peoples thoughts here im currently running 200 sucklers and followers plus stores and sheep on 500 acres of grass 220 silage/280 grazing im looking for some poorer ground to buy/rent for grazing the stock as its arable ground theyre on which could be growing a crop, the only concern i have is taking the grass out of the rotation will my yields suffer? i will still be applying much to the ground although it would then be spread over an extra 280 acres, what are peoples thoughts? is it worth doing this or just stick how i am?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I asking myself if some of the very poor yield and lack of straw even on spring crops this dry yeear is due to the lack of organic matter , just a ley mans mutterings

 

[Two Tone]

I asking myself if some of the very poor yield and lack of straw even on spring crops this dry yeear is due to the lack of organic matter , just a ley mans mutterings

For Winter Barley, I’m fairly convinced that it is mostly a combination of the March/April/May drought PLUS the very late frosts we had in May, which destroyed a lot of the flowers in the ears. Our worst yields were very much worse where we had low lying frost pockets. And the first time round the fields which are shaded by trees and Hedges was definitely the highest yielding.

I knew this when I was testing the moisture before we started Combining. It took 4 ears of grain to filled the moisture meter chamber on the good stuff and 9-11 on the worst stuff.

With regards which is best Muck -v- following Grass, grass is better by a bit. However, sometimes it is the 2nd year following grass that can be even better.
There is no doubt that grassland in a rotation can be a huge yield builder in arable crops.
But Muck is a much better provider of plant nutrients than artificial Fertilisers IMO.

 

[M-J-G]

As a rule the more OM the better land will cope with both wet and dry conditions.

Grass and dung help soils, cereals tend to do more damage than good.

Remove grass from the rotation and things will suffer.

 

[Two Tone]

As a rule the more OM the better land will cope with bout wet and dry conditions.

Grass and dung help soils, cereals tend to do more damage than good.

Remove grass from the rotation and things will suffer.

I do a lot of crop judging for Moreton Show.
It stuns me how much better crops from mixed farms are than purely arable farms. Especially when the mixed farmers spend far more time looking after their livestock and treat their arable crops with far less importance.
This clearly demonstrates the advantage of both grassland and muck in their rotations.

When the mixed farmers end up winning, this often frustrates the dedicated all arable farmers!

 

[M-J-G]

I do a lot of crop judging for Moreton Show.
It stuns me how much better crops from mixed farms are than purely arable farms. Especially when the mixed farmers spend far more time looking after their livestock and treat their arable crops with far less importance.
This clearly demonstrates the advantage of both grassland and muck in their rotations.

When the mixed farmers end up winning, this often frustrates the dedicated all arable farmers!

On a good year all crops are good, on a very dry or a very wet year the soils with good structure and OM levels tend to shine.

 

[T Hectares]

Of course, if you are concerned about reducing soil OM with less grass you could ditch the plough and combi

 

[deleted user 837354]

Both.

 

[M-J-G]

I do a lot of crop judging for Moreton Show.
It stuns me how much better crops from mixed farms are than purely arable farms. Especially when the mixed farmers spend far more time looking after their livestock and treat their arable crops with far less importance.
This clearly demonstrates the advantage of both grassland and muck in their rotations.

When the mixed farmers end up winning, this often frustrates the dedicated all arable farmers!

We're in a transitional period at the moment, we are putting long term arable land into grass and putting some long term grassland into crops.
This year the crops on the old grassland are just about ideal, wheat was sown last autumn when conditions were terrible and it's done great.
The barley was sown in very dry conditions (10mm in 3 months) and most SB crops around here show, but the fields that were taken out of long-term grass just grew as normal.

 

[M-J-G]

Both.

Aaaaaamen Brutha

 

[teslacoils]

Both.

The grass extends the break. The muck adds the fertility. The grass also reduces the weeds. Wheat after longish grass did a ton to the acre more than mine, for less spend. Hence I now have grass. Trick is turning the grass into money but that's moving forward.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Grass increases O/M content over time, both through litter and root mass. It improves soil and gives them backbone whilst retaining nutrients and protecting the soil surface. It literally is a green manure.

 

[M-J-G]

The grass extends the break. The muck adds the fertility. The grass also reduces the weeds. Wheat after longish grass did a ton to the acre more than mine, for less spend. Hence I now have grass. Trick is turning the grass into money but that's moving forward.

Grass adds a lot of fertility too

 

[ajd132]

I was wondering about introducing grass seed to the rotation. Obviously it’s not the same but would this help on a purely arable farm? We do import a lot of chicken manure and grow covers aswell.

 

[teslacoils]

In the hunt for profitable break crops, I think everything needs considering. You're probably kitted up for grass seed anyway.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I was wondering about introducing grass seed to the rotation. Obviously it’s not the same but would this help on a purely arable farm? We do import a lot of chicken manure and grow covers aswell.

Yes, grass seed as I understood it was grown for two years so would be a better break than nothing at all.

Linseed, beans and maybe sunflowers worth a look? Don't know what the climate in your area is like. The UK needs to find an oilseed crop to replace OSR as far as I can tell.

Put 4 tonne/acre of poultry muck across your crops in spring... save big money on nitrogen.

 

[DrWazzock]

We have a mixed farm here. Crops are definitely better after a grass ley provided you have fed the grass ley when taking silage or hay off it. Grassland that’s given heavy crops of forage without replenishment of lime, potash and phosphate can become extremely poor. Muck also helps a lot.
It’s a lot of work and overhead though, running different enterprises. It was so simple and easy when it was just combinables. Never underestimate the amount of machinery livestock farming seems to need nowadays. It requires more kit than the arable, either owned or hired which makes me sceptical about folks cracking on about a return to dog and stick farming as a means of cutting expenses. If I was going lean and mean I’d direct drill cereals and leave the straw chopper switched on all the time. The livestock would go. A nice idea but a lot of work for marginally greater return if any. Maybe you do get another half ton per acre in the arable but you work for it.

 

[AT Aloss]

I was wondering about introducing grass seed to the rotation. Obviously it’s not the same but would this help on a purely arable farm? We do import a lot of chicken manure and grow covers aswell.

All my world record & YEN winning neighbours use muck. We've been growing grass seed since my grandfather's time & grass alone may give improvements in soil quality, biodiversity & quantifiable 'health' aspects - but one thing it isn't, is a panacea for achieving high yields. Wheat after herbage seed is often the worst yielding wheat on the farm (it was last year due to frit fly, at least 20% lower). It is frequently surpassed in terms of yield as a 2nd year crop after herbage seed (so you have to assess any yield benefits over 2 years really). But with no frit fly chemistry to apply to either the following wheat seed or crop anymore, the lowest risk strategy is following it with a legume - but who really wants a 3 year break, it doesn't help you grow more wheat - but it might help with achieving a really high yielding wheat if competitions are your thing!

If you had livestock, yard muck, slurry & silage grass, well that adds something completely different into the equation!

 

[ajd132]

In the hunt for profitable break crops, I think everything needs considering. You're probably kitted up for grass seed anyway.

The guys we share one of the drills with also have a 12m stripper header which we use on oats and barley so fairly well set up for the job. Might be worth a revisit.

 

[quattro]

I’ve a field Of w barley, been in arable for 30 +years and looks as good as anything about
it gets fym and chicken muck though