Grass OR muck for grain yield??

[Flat 10]

The problem we found with pure grass breaks was following with wheat, which never did that well...second wheat would be better, but frit fly or whatever would ensure first wheat was a bit rubbish. We're now trying four year herbal leys , lots of different roots in the soil, extracting nutrients from deep down and all over the place, feeding the soil all year round. Christine Jones talks about the 'liquid carbon pathway' where plants export as much as 60% of the sugars they create from photosynthesis into the soil, exchanged with fungi and bacteria for water and mineral nutrients...this is the great benefit of a multi-year perennial break. Mob-graze with cattle and the money flows (in which direction is up to you)

How is the wheat after this?

 

[ollie989898]

I will be following my grass with winter beans....when I finally get that far down the line.

That makes sense.

1. Totally immune to grass pests.

2. Can do direct drilling and choose when you want to go.

3. Chemistry in beans is better orientated to grass weeds.

 

[AT Aloss]

I’m think Nocton stoppped because milk price crashed and it was no longer feasible. Yes the antis had a lot to say about factory farming. Not quite sure what you are saying in your reply? My point was his bottom line may not improve by growing spring barley!

I was meaning you were right about obtaining good grass growth & utilisation as a path to profit often being overlooked in eastern counties arable businesses.

 

[AT Aloss]

I will be following my grass with winter beans....when I finally get that far down the line.

Works well, brilliant beans & then wheat & really low inputs

 

[Flat 10]

I was meaning you were right about obtaining good grass growth & utilisation as a path to profit is often overlooked in eastern counties arable businesses.

Because we can’t grow grass like they do in the wet west.

 

[teslacoils]

That makes sense.

1. Totally immune to grass pests.

2. Can do direct drilling and choose when you want to go.

3. Chemistry in beans is better orientated to grass weeds.

Also time to get a late cut, dead grass, plough them in, spray with kerb.

 

[teslacoils]

Because we can’t grow grass like they do in the wet west.

Perhaps on the lighter soils. But grows ace here.

 

[Hampton]

I will be following my grass with winter beans....when I finally get that far down the line.

Or maize

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Put some red clover in as well . Deep rootting and fixes nitrogen

 

[AT Aloss]

Because we can’t grow grass like they do in the wet west.

I was discussing a beef farmer in Norfolk with my herbage seed agronomist the other day, whose farm is behind the beach. They've moved from growing ryegrass for silage to festulolium because of exactly the reasons you give regarding rainfall. From what I understand this guarantees him 2 cuts of silage now, farmyard manure and arable improvements. We should never say never.

 

[Sandy]

I’ve a field Of w barley, been in arable for 30 +years and looks as good as anything about
it gets fym and chicken muck though

Is that the one that won the RNAS congratulations by the way!

 

[HarryB97]

If you rent more land and grow some cereals at 'home' then will you need to employ more labour? upgrade the kit? make large investments in grain storage? If so I wouldn't bother as you are making work for very little if any gain. You could drop the stores and just finish your homebread stock which would decrease your demand for grass so you could grow some cereals each year and then reseed after? Would any neighbours be interested in you having several fields for a few years for silage leys and rotating them around their land?

 

[DrWazzock]

Some of the best crops we had were when we were all arable with a good dose of sewerage works cake ploughed in.

 

[Will 1594]

I’m think Nocton stoppped because milk price crashed and it was no longer feasible. Yes the antis had a lot to say about factory farming. Not quite sure what you are saying in your reply? My point was his bottom line may not improve by growing spring barley!

Maybe if they had applied for 500 cows and slowly built up , no one would have been bothered , but. Bosh. 8000 cows. Shock horror. Factory farm

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Arable farmers should work with dairy farmers more . Grow Westerwolds for them and have injected slurry in return

 

[M-J-G]

All my world record & YEN winning neighbours use muck. We've been growing grass seed since my grandfather's time & grass alone may give improvements in soil quality, biodiversity & quantifiable 'health' aspects - but one thing it isn't, is a panacea for achieving high yields. Wheat after herbage seed is often the worst yielding wheat on the farm (it was last year due to frit fly, at least 20% lower). It is frequently surpassed in terms of yield as a 2nd year crop after herbage seed (so you have to assess any yield benefits over 2 years really). But with no frit fly chemistry to apply to either the following wheat seed or crop anymore, the lowest risk strategy is following it with a legume - but who really wants a 3 year break, it doesn't help you grow more wheat - but it might help with achieving a really high yielding wheat if competitions are your thing!

If you had livestock, yard muck, slurry & silage grass, well that adds something completely different into the equation!

We often find 2nd year wheat after grass to be best, mainly because the surface OM is broken down by then.
I apply dung to old grass now because it's more readily available in the first year, and the old sod provides fertility in the 2nd year.

Dung also helps retain moisture in the first year when the old grass can draw moisture away from the cereal crop.

 

[Farmer Fin]

It certainly should be!

Think that sheep has been the most profitable per ha over the past 10 years average.

 

[AT Aloss]

We often find 2nd year wheat after grass to be best, mainly because the surface OM is broken down by then.
I apply dung to old grass now because it's more readily available in the first year, and the old sod provides fertility in the 2nd year.

Dung also helps retain moisture in the first year when the old grass can draw moisture away from the cereal crop.

The @Simon Chiles thread below also discusses the benefit of granular lime to help neutralise the acids during the graminaceous material breakdown period on lower pH soils, which I think is valid

The Two Simon's Theory

This Winter, because of too much rain and time on our hands, @Simon C and I came up with a theory that we think explains all sorts of things. When we talked about it we found that he had one half of the jigsaw and I the other. Since then I have discussed it with other members of this forum and...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You cant apply lime until 5 days after spraying Glyphosate, so hold you up a bit
And if its lower PH soil why not lime it

 

[AT Aloss]

You cant apply lime until 5 days after spraying Glyphosate, so hold you up a bit
And if its lower PH soil why not lime it

It was about economic placement in the root zone specific to manage localised acetic, butyric and proprionic acids which will still arise if there's routine neutralising practices. If you grow grass I think it's worth a read