Guy Smith @ meeting with guth today

[gone up the hill]

GUTH

Nice to meet you today, I thought it an hour well spent. I think your account is reasonably honest, its not quite 100% accurate in my view but that maybe because I didn't express myself very clearly or you didn't quite catch the gist of what I was saying.

All I'll say is i found you far more reasonable and considered in the flesh than you are on here but maybe that's because sometimes its best to meet one to one and maybe we should have done it sooner and if that's my fault I apologise.

Thanks

Guy

Guy,

Likewise,

I tried to make it a balanced and fair report of the meeting and as accurate as possible however as you know a lot of subjects were covered and as I was writing that post from memory I didn't want to miss-quote either you or the SW chap, so there maybe comment's/ viewpoints from either of you that i have missed so if you think anything needs to be clarified/ or has been missed that you want added then please let me know and i will amend the opening post,

GUTH

 

[danjen]

because I love our industry and it saddens me greatly to see it being represented so badly to politicians, the media and the public. I have also wasted countless thousands over the years supporting what now seems to be little more than a talking shop and information distribution system between government and its members.

I feel it needs to reform or get out the way some something else can take its place, it cant carry on as it is IMO thats for sure

The NFU,"an information distribution system between government and its members",in that they tell their members, the goverment of the days unpopular policies (do their dirty work for them) A very fair point.The late John Cherrington said that in his books and articles many times nearly 40 years ago.He was often a constant thorn in the NFUs side aswell.

 

[Filthyfarmer]

The latter is what I suggested yesterday,

I also said that the NFU should let their members have a vote on if they want one member one vote or not,

I think that if the NFU want to keep the current system then they at least need to make the way the county delegate votes much more open and transparent and release who they voted for and the reasons they voted for that person so their county members can see for themselves if the county chair did indeed vote for the person that the majority of that county's members asked them to or not!

Totally agree, but you will still get the horse trading with the delegates at council. Let them choose a short list then let the members have the final vote,

 

[Henarar]

I told you all it would be fine

Exchanging Christmas cards now ? @Guy Smith @gone up the hill

 

[4course]

I think its time a truce was called both gs and guth need to be commended on both agreeing to meet and both disclosing their views im not an nfu member nor do I agree with some of the things gs seems to be in favour of but for the first time in my farming career someone from the heirachy has been prepared to meet and knowingly have what he said spread around the ether for those members or non members to see, I left years ago due to the undemocratic way of doing things and the old school tie but from this episode there may just may be someone who is prepared to support or at least listen to all farmers wether members or not so I think this new channel of input/contact should be kept open but I doubt it will if we stoop to personal attacks cos if I was gs id tell the forum members to f--- off and we would all be the losers

 

[warksfarmer]

Firstly I would like to thank @Guy Smith for making time to see me today,

Hence to say if he gives up AG politics at some point in the long distant future then anyone that is looking for a top salesman would be very advised to snap up his services

Background..

Today's meeting was at the request of GS himself, the meeting went on for about an hour and 10 mins, also present was the South West Regional Policy advisor who I also had a meeting with about 2 weeks ago at the NFU's request, I would like to say that he is a very capable young man with his finger on the ball, he is a credit to the NFU and I would say that if you are a NFU member and want to discuss anything about WLA/ TB etc etc then please contact him as he will im sure be only too pleased to chat to you, many subjects were covered in today's meeting so I will try to outline brief description of a few of them ( from memory ) and GS's answers ( and also in some questions the RPA's answers as well )

NFU Membership:

NFU membership/income is verified by an independent source, income is about 1% higher than last year due to farming members farming more acreage so hence paying more sub, full farming membership numbers are broadly the same as last year ( around 45k I recall ) which they think is good given the current industry state, membership I gather is down in the previous few years but that is partly due to the fact there is less farmers generally, what has dropped quite dramatically is the countryside membership the last few years due to the fact that you do now not have to be a NFU member to insure with them.

One member one vote:

I was told by GS that he has NOT come across any other members ( out of any of the thousands he has meet ) that have requested this and doesn't see it as an issue, also he stated that it couldn't be done as there no way members could vote for a person up for election as say you were a partnership but only paying one sub then who in that partnership would vote, I sad it should be one membership number one vote and who voted for that membership number wasn't the problem of the NFU, GS strongly dismissed this.. hence to say we had to agree to disagree......

AHDB.

I was told that the NFU have put massive pressure on them and are still doing so and in particular the top team @PK ref advertising, I got the Feeling that GS is not convinced about the value of spending levy payers money on advertising due to questions about the value of £ for £ spent on it, what is of grave concern all agreed is the fact the Government has slashed Defra's budget for the next for years and will try and shift some of their work onto the AHDB, the TB advisory service being the first example and it was made clear by GS that either the AHDB fund work like this or else this work will not get carried out by anyone but I can see that the NFU will have to fight hard to ensure that not a large % of the AHDB's levy money get used in this way from unrelenting pressure from Defra etc,

The RPA advisor made a good point that the AHDB needs to engage much more with levy payers and explain their work and how the board is spending the levy money and that this needs to be done yearly, ( with a meeting planned for the SW in DEC 2015 at Exeter,

Farm Assurance,

Both the RPA and GS made a robust defence of the NFU's response to this issue, they believe that WLA can be justified as it does add value to the farmgate price by around 12/14% ( AHDB figures ) I made it very clear that this was not the case and the NFU must work much harder in calling the RT quango to account and not agree to ever increasing new rules like WLA etc unless they get something in return ( ie remove a rule elsewhere ), they did agree that the NFU should be doing this but I personally don't believe it will happen,

A NFU members forum,

This subject did get GS all but jumping out of his chair....

The RPA did agree with me two weeks ago that this could be a good idea and needed more investigation, today both GS and the RPA said that they have not had one member other than myself suggest/ talk about having a forum out of the many of members that they meet and thus was not an issue that needed to be discussed, GS believes that they do enough on this front already and that Twitter/ the NFU website/ facebook page ( the most popular ) is more than enough and that it would be too costly for a NFU only members forum so therefore the issue wasn't up orr discussion..

Minette Batters TB statement two weeks ago,

Apparently she never made this statement and that it was misquoted by another TFF member about part of a statement she did make and what the badger trust had stated ( basically this member somehow joined up the two statements by accident )

In summary..............................................

It was a very usefull meeting but I fear that much pressure will need to be put on the NFU about things like One member one vote as whilst the regions seem quite open minded to possible change, head office are not...

I also felt that the Eastern/ Northern regions have a lot more power/ say than places like the South/ SW on issues like Pre movement testing/ WLA assurance etc etc..

I would like to say that whilst GS accepts that TB is a massive issue for farmers I feel he doesn't quite understand just how badly the ever increasing movement rules affect cattle farmers and im deeply concerned about a couple of comments that were made about TB transmission routes..

So all in all a waste of time and exactly as I found when I met Peter Kendal about 6 years ago privately at Stoneleigh and then Adam Quinney privately at Stoneleigh again about 3 years ago. Both really nice guys to talk to but they didn't have the power to change anything as they are just front men.

Theres no point trying to change the setup because its to 'cushy' for all involved. Getting paid to say what they are told! Why would they want to change it?

As for Guys comment about OMOV ........ quite pathetic really trying to avoid it by suggesting how many within a business vote! The business is one vote end of as it pays one membership.

I bet in 6 years time you will still be sitting there thinking why did I even bother with those two meetings .......... Easiest thing is just walk away and let the members leave and the whole thing collapse because thats a where its heading.

 

[Hilly]

Firstly I would like to thank @Guy Smith for making time to see me today,

Hence to say if he gives up AG politics at some point in the long distant future then anyone that is looking for a top salesman would be very advised to snap up his services

Background..

Today's meeting was at the request of GS himself, the meeting went on for about an hour and 10 mins, also present was the South West Regional Policy advisor who I also had a meeting with about 2 weeks ago at the NFU's request, I would like to say that he is a very capable young man with his finger on the ball, he is a credit to the NFU and I would say that if you are a NFU member and want to discuss anything about WLA/ TB etc etc then please contact him as he will im sure be only too pleased to chat to you, many subjects were covered in today's meeting so I will try to outline brief description of a few of them ( from memory ) and GS's answers ( and also in some questions the RPA's answers as well )

NFU Membership:

NFU membership/income is verified by an independent source, income is about 1% higher than last year due to farming members farming more acreage so hence paying more sub, full farming membership numbers are broadly the same as last year ( around 45k I recall ) which they think is good given the current industry state, membership I gather is down in the previous few years but that is partly due to the fact there is less farmers generally, what has dropped quite dramatically is the countryside membership the last few years due to the fact that you do now not have to be a NFU member to insure with them.

One member one vote:

I was told by GS that he has NOT come across any other members ( out of any of the thousands he has meet ) that have requested this and doesn't see it as an issue, also he stated that it couldn't be done as there no way members could vote for a person up for election as say you were a partnership but only paying one sub then who in that partnership would vote, I sad it should be one membership number one vote and who voted for that membership number wasn't the problem of the NFU, GS strongly dismissed this.. hence to say we had to agree to disagree......

AHDB.

I was told that the NFU have put massive pressure on them and are still doing so and in particular the top team @PK ref advertising, I got the Feeling that GS is not convinced about the value of spending levy payers money on advertising due to questions about the value of £ for £ spent on it, what is of grave concern all agreed is the fact the Government has slashed Defra's budget for the next for years and will try and shift some of their work onto the AHDB, the TB advisory service being the first example and it was made clear by GS that either the AHDB fund work like this or else this work will not get carried out by anyone but I can see that the NFU will have to fight hard to ensure that not a large % of the AHDB's levy money get used in this way from unrelenting pressure from Defra etc,

The RPA advisor made a good point that the AHDB needs to engage much more with levy payers and explain their work and how the board is spending the levy money and that this needs to be done yearly, ( with a meeting planned for the SW in DEC 2015 at Exeter,

Farm Assurance,

Both the RPA and GS made a robust defence of the NFU's response to this issue, they believe that WLA can be justified as it does add value to the farmgate price by around 12/14% ( AHDB figures ) I made it very clear that this was not the case and the NFU must work much harder in calling the RT quango to account and not agree to ever increasing new rules like WLA etc unless they get something in return ( ie remove a rule elsewhere ), they did agree that the NFU should be doing this but I personally don't believe it will happen,

A NFU members forum,

This subject did get GS all but jumping out of his chair....

The RPA did agree with me two weeks ago that this could be a good idea and needed more investigation, today both GS and the RPA said that they have not had one member other than myself suggest/ talk about having a forum out of the many of members that they meet and thus was not an issue that needed to be discussed, GS believes that they do enough on this front already and that Twitter/ the NFU website/ facebook page ( the most popular ) is more than enough and that it would be too costly for a NFU only members forum so therefore the issue wasn't up orr discussion..

Minette Batters TB statement two weeks ago,

Apparently she never made this statement and that it was misquoted by another TFF member about part of a statement she did make and what the badger trust had stated ( basically this member somehow joined up the two statements by accident )

In summary..............................................

It was a very usefull meeting but I fear that much pressure will need to be put on the NFU about things like One member one vote as whilst the regions seem quite open minded to possible change, head office are not...

I also felt that the Eastern/ Northern regions have a lot more power/ say than places like the South/ SW on issues like Pre movement testing/ WLA assurance etc etc..

I would like to say that whilst GS accepts that TB is a massive issue for farmers I feel he doesn't quite understand just how badly the ever increasing movement rules affect cattle farmers and im deeply concerned about a couple of comments that were made about TB transmission routes..

It sounds like they have done a good job one you anyway.

 

[Hilly]

So all in all a waste of time and exactly as I found when I met Peter Kendal about 6 years ago privately at Stoneleigh and then Adam Quinney privately at Stoneleigh again about 3 years ago. Both really nice guys to talk to but they didn't have the power to change anything as they are just front men.

Theres no point trying to change the setup because its to 'cushy' for all involved. Getting paid to say what they are told! Why would they want to change it?

As for Guys comment about OMOV ........ quite pathetic really trying to avoid it by suggesting how many within a business vote! The business is one vote end of as it pays one membership.

I bet in 6 years time you will still be sitting there thinking why did I even bother with those two meetings .......... Easiest thing is just walk away and let the members leave and the whole thing collapse because thats a where its heading.

Best post so far, I only pay a membership because of financial benefits, I suspect most are the same, take away the Mutual discount and all other associated discounts within a few years they wouldn't have many members at all.

 

[Oat]

I agree with many disagreeing with the way the NFU operates, but what is the alternative to get farmer's view heard?

But having said this, if it is the NFU's job to represent paid member farmers, then they should at least be accountable and responsive to member opinions.

 

[roscoe erf]

I think @Sleepy 's point is not about the General Election.

I believe Ed Miliband's re-structuring of the Labour party membership to the infamous £3 membership and vote on the leader led to a good few misguided but earnest folks (and a few devious right wingers ) getting Corbyn in. In a way it was OMOV over the PLP ..........

On the Labour front, to my mind OMOV is perfect in that I never want them elected and Corbyn is perfect for that

If you want OMOV, I suppose you're saying you don't want a shoe in. Some may feel that farmers may need saving from themselves

In blatant terms OMOV gets a David Handley not a ................

and thats a bad thing think it all needs shaking up not letting status quo carry on i think thats a good thing

 

[turbo]

I didn't realise Clive lived in Witney Oxfordshire because that's the only way you can vote for David Cameron ,other wise you are voting for someone else to vote for Cameron so not much different to the Nfu after all.

 

[Clive]

I didn't realise Clive lived in Witney Oxfordshire because that's the only way you can vote for David Cameron ,other wise you are voting for someone else to vote for Cameron so not much different to the Nfu after all.

my vote for my local MP is also a vote for my prime minister in a election - if they made mickey mouse leader of the conservative party then my local MP would not get my vote

(actually maybe mickey mouse would do a fair job ! )


Westminster is FAR more democratic than the NFU to suggest it not is silly, I have voted in many elections now both local and general but through that time I have NEVER had opportunity to vote on any NFU appointment or issue as an individual

 

[turbo]

Yes Westminster is so much more democratic just ask the 4million people that voted ukip and got one
Mp at the last election

 

[FarmyStu]

my vote for my local MP is also a vote for my prime minister in a election - if they made mickey mouse leader of the conservative party then my local MP would not get my vote

(actually maybe mickey mouse would do a fair job ! )


Westminster is FAR more democratic than the NFU to suggest it not is silly, I have voted in many elections now both local and general but through that time I have NEVER had opportunity to vote on any NFU appointment or issue as an individual

But as a citizen of this country I have no option but to live under the government of the day, no matter who I voted for. I do not have to be a member of the NFU. Your comparison is flawed.

 

[Clive]

Yes Westminster is so much more democratic just ask the 4million people that voted ukip and got one
Mp at the last election

..................at least they got to vote .................it's a start !

 

[Clive]

But as a citizen of this country I have no option but to live under the government of the day, no matter who I voted for. I do not have to be a member of the NFU. Your comparison is flawed.

I really don't think there's any excuse to not make election of anyone that represents a group of people as democratic as possible

 

[More to life]

I'm not to sure of the whole background but boy you are coming in off the long run today Clive. Does anybody other than Guy Smith from the Nfu put his head on the block on this forum.

 

[FarmyStu]

I really don't think there's any excuse to not make election of anyone that represents a group of people as democratic as possible

But our current Prime Minister was elected leader by a few hundred MPs. They can get rid of him and select someone else at the drop of a hat. All without reference to the general public. Of course, their own re-election may well depend on the choice they make so they tend to select a moderate.

When everyone gets a vote you get the chaos that is currently consuming the Labour party. Populism rules the day and bad choices are made. I tend to vote for politicians cleverer than I to make clever decisions on my behalf; better decisions than I would make.

I'd guess during the milk protests someone in favour of protests would win the popular NFU vote. Now it would be someone who promises raised wheat prices or such like. Not a good way to run an important organisation. But of course you have the ultimate vote with the NFU. The vote to walk away. Doesn't get any more democratic than that.

 

[Clive]

But of course you have the ultimate vote with the NFU. The vote to walk away. Doesn't get any more democratic than that.

this bit I agree with and that's why I have left this year, my family have up until now always been members going back generations - it's my only vote within the NFU

I suggest others that don't feel they are successfully representing UK ag do the same - they might just start listening then

 

[drumeldry]

this bit I agree with and that's why I have left this year, my family have up until now always been members going back generations - it's my only vote within the NFU

I suggest others that don't feel they are successfully representing UK ag do the same - they might just start listening then

Maybe you could bring the down the NFU then start your own organisation,