How do I measure "milky-ness" in ewes (without resorting to EID)?
- Thread starter PhilipB
- Start date
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
weigh lambs regularly , maybe every 2 -3 weeks till 8 -10 weeks or so as the rumen is taking over by then , thats how we started , you can quite often see a pattern , discount the singles makes it a bit easier , obvs a lot of work if no handling nearby
Thanks.
How did you link ewes to lambs?
Did you think the information you got was worth the effort?
We used to do this without EID or a reader--- (If you are a UK sheep keeper you will have EID in the tags by law so i doubt EID is the problem I suspect it's more about lack of a reader? )
Pen and paper was the answer pre EID & regular weighing
All info. put into Signet BLUP
Pen and paper was the answer pre EID & regular weighing
All info. put into Signet BLUP
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
all lambs tagged at birth , along with ewe number , best 30% growth rate lambs we added a small coloured cable tie to the tag , then when you draft ewe lambs for fat , you can pick out potential replacements as long as structure is sound . and see how they grow on .Any issues with ewe (feet / maggots / get on back along the way ) etc remove tie .
effort was mixed , in that it mainly provided another selection criteria for keeping homebred rams ,but you have to have the genetics there in the first place, A lot of uk terminal breed ewes tend to be poorer milkers to start with (selection for best shaped as you would expect )
I tend to buy rams in France these days from High milk index mothers , that have been Ai 'd by v high terminal index rams , As they put a lot of effort into female lines in terminal breeds
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- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Can't imagine not tagging at birth/ day old. Lambs don't get put out of the shed/ moved from the lambing field without the four 'Ts' being done - tails, testicles, tagged and tick (Spot on).
Currently I just tag the replacement ewe lambs with a Richie "tag faster" management tag, and note the number.
My losses of tags runs at about 20%.
So I'm loathe to start double tagging, when, as I see it, the only "extra" info I might gain is milkiness. Hence my ruminations on the topic.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
20% ?!? I think you need to review your tag choice.
- Location
- Co Down UK
Lack of EID reader easy to fix. An Agrident APR250 reader @ £375 or thereabouts will do all the recording on the spot. If you want to be able to look up data on the actual reader, you move up to the Agrident APR600. These are both handheld pocket readers. If you prefer a stick type, you have options of a quick release stick for the APR600, allowing you to have the best of both worlds - handheld pocket reader when you want it and stick when you want it, or alternatively one of the two Agrident sticks AWR250 or AWR300 - AWR250, stick version of the handheld APR250 - you can record and transfer data to a computer but no lookup on screen facilities. AWR300 is the stick version of the APR600 allowing you to record and to look up data on screen.
Hi Folks.
I purchased a Agrident AWR300 reader and Select Sheepware from George in TGM Software. Superb one hour tutorial after purchase to get me up and running. Brilliant piece of kit. The best thing about it the aftersales service. I've had a few 'operator error' issues, i.e. I didn't know how to use it properly. George sorted it all out promptly over the phone. Top notch service.
I purchased a Agrident AWR300 reader and Select Sheepware from George in TGM Software. Superb one hour tutorial after purchase to get me up and running. Brilliant piece of kit. The best thing about it the aftersales service. I've had a few 'operator error' issues, i.e. I didn't know how to use it properly. George sorted it all out promptly over the phone. Top notch service.
- Location
- North wales
Where on the ear do you tag?
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
We tag front of ear, about 1/3 way from head. Losses run well under 1% per year, across the flock.
- Location
- North wales
same here, very surprised at the 20% loss remark
This was one year, single tag "tag faster" on ewe lambs, with creep feeding.
I like to think that the 20% were the ones I didn't put in myself.
Without creep feeding retention is alot better.
And do you do that 'tight' (edge of ear into fold of tag) or leave "room to grow"?
primmiemoo
Member
- Location
- Devon
Instructions for Inserting Sheep Tags :: Shearwell.co.uk
All you need to know about how to insert sheep tags correctly and safely.
www.shearwell.co.uk
Very few losses (barely 1 in 100 to selling size in the commercials), tagging from 2 days old.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Leave room to grow. Probably about 1/3 of the tag is loose.
The way I see it is that a milky ewe will produce the higher growth rate/ biggest and strongest lambs?
I only keep replacements from doubles that reach 40kg and over pre tupping (I run a closed flock of Llyens aiming for 60% of the mature adult weight) so you would expect the replacements to be from milky ewes?
With peak lactation 3 to 4 weeks after lambing, weighing lambs at around 4 weeks of age (during vaccinating) whilst you can still see the numbers and before shearing would also give an indication of milky ewes. You can add this data to the dam and sire tags and does not require tagging lambs.
I use the Shearwell StockMove2 App to record most data but unfortunately it cannot link the lamb weights to the ewe tag without recording a birth tag number. I manually add the combined weights to the ewes tag via separate a google sheet on my phone. I also record scanning/ lambing data in the same document. This helps identify the top performing ewes but would also highlight non milky/ low growth rate producing ewes?
I only keep replacements from doubles that reach 40kg and over pre tupping (I run a closed flock of Llyens aiming for 60% of the mature adult weight) so you would expect the replacements to be from milky ewes?
With peak lactation 3 to 4 weeks after lambing, weighing lambs at around 4 weeks of age (during vaccinating) whilst you can still see the numbers and before shearing would also give an indication of milky ewes. You can add this data to the dam and sire tags and does not require tagging lambs.
I use the Shearwell StockMove2 App to record most data but unfortunately it cannot link the lamb weights to the ewe tag without recording a birth tag number. I manually add the combined weights to the ewes tag via separate a google sheet on my phone. I also record scanning/ lambing data in the same document. This helps identify the top performing ewes but would also highlight non milky/ low growth rate producing ewes?
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Sounds a bit of a hassle - why would you not just tag them when you've got them handy for vaccination (or indeed at birth) ?
- Location
- Scottsih Borders
Why don't you all save yourselves that time and effort of recording by simply culling the poorest doing lambs and their mothers.
Take it as a well established truth. You will make little or no progress by selection. You will make much more and quicker progress by removing the bottom (say) 5% each year.
Anyone who is interested in a balanced view between practical sheep husbandry, sheep breeding and quantitative genetics should try to obtain a copy of '''Sheep Husbandry and Diseases'' by Alan Fraser and John Stamp. Alan Fraser DSc was senior lecturer at Aberdeen University, but previously a research worker at The Rowett Research Institute and previously a shepherd and farm manager. John Stamp MRCVS was Director of the Moredun Res. Institute.
Take it as a well established truth. You will make little or no progress by selection. You will make much more and quicker progress by removing the bottom (say) 5% each year.
Anyone who is interested in a balanced view between practical sheep husbandry, sheep breeding and quantitative genetics should try to obtain a copy of '''Sheep Husbandry and Diseases'' by Alan Fraser and John Stamp. Alan Fraser DSc was senior lecturer at Aberdeen University, but previously a research worker at The Rowett Research Institute and previously a shepherd and farm manager. John Stamp MRCVS was Director of the Moredun Res. Institute.