How the negotiations are being managed

[RobFZS]

Just the sort of thing millions of people across the eu want, with their lack of employment and stagnating wages, think about it, be rational.

 

[turbo]

@DrDunc what are more conserned about,losing the subs or bad trade deals and if you think that being in the eu has been so good for farming why have so many left the industry while being under their wing

 

[caveman]

??????

So it's acceptable for Westminster to throw away the lives and livelihoods of tens of thousands of British agricultural sector families?

It's acceptable to put them onto the dole and import food instead?

Well at least all those Johnny foreigners in the colonies will keep their jobs, doesn't matter about British ones.

At last
Your begining to see what real life for the majority is about

 

[RobFZS]

At last
Your begining to see what real life for the majority is about

He act's asif market forces/customs checks don't exist, there's a mass raft of cheap meat abroad that our government can monitor/inspect , yet saying westminster is inept, the amount of contradictions is amusing.

 

[RobFZS]

https://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/imports/importers/pointofentry

Products of animal origin (POAO)
A range of controls exist for POAO imported from outside the EU to protect both public and animal health. Imported POAO must be presented at a designated BIP for veterinary checks to be carried out and consignments failing the documentary, identity and physical checks will not be allowed into the UK and may be destroyed.

This for example, does @DrDunc think our government can cope with the veterinary inspections of outside Uk meat and other foods? they simply don't have the man power to do this, so why sh!t on your own doorstep and make work for yourselves, it will be a decade before they have any of this even started

 

[RobFZS]

This brain dead argument that they can just replace our highly regulated food market with any old sh!t is crazy, we have checks on literally everything to stop the populous having a health scare, if it's not up to standard, it either stays in a container for months, or it gets turned back, we do live in a parliamentary democracy, so trying to bring anything in, from anywhere with whatever means of production, won;t get through the commons, even if it does push up food prices, that is the Governments issue.

This is essentially why we can't hard brexit, as there is simply too much sh!t tied up to deal with in 2 years, Mrs May understands this and thus, she's opting for a transitional arrangement to remain in the eu while everything gets moved over to Uk control before we fully leave, this could mean we're in the Eu for more than 2 years ahead, but we'll have to see what happens , we'll probably end up in the EEA, which is more like the old EC.

 

[RobFZS]

Following on from the previous point, the very food we have to import, which has to be checked at customs, if it is an ingredient of something that is then going to be exported to the eu, the paper trail has to reveal where it has come from and if it has been checked, or they won't take it.

This is exactly why trade deals with the Eu and anyone else for that matter, take forever to sort out, the conformity of standards has to be spot on to match their systems, hence why we're already ahead of the pack when we drop out compared to the likes of Canada who has a completely different regulatory system to ours, global regulators such as UNECE have been trying to harmonise all the systems to try and cut down on non tariff barriers, but there's a long way to go yet, the beauty of brexit is once we leave the eu, we will be on the top table, such as UNECE to tailor the regs to suit our domestic industries, rather than whispering to the eu we would like something added on and 27 others other riding us when the commission speaks for us on the table.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Following on from the previous point, the very food we have to import, which has to be checked at customs, if it is an ingredient of something that is then going to be exported to the eu, the paper trail has to reveal where it has come from and if it has been checked, or they won't take it.

This is exactly why trade deals with the Eu and anyone else for that matter, take forever to sort out, the conformity of standards has to be spot on to match their systems, hence why we're already ahead of the pack when we drop out compared to the likes of Canada who has a completely different regulatory system to ours, global regulators such as UNECE have been trying to harmonise all the systems to try and cut down on non tariff barriers, but there's a long way to go yet, the beauty of brexit is once we leave the eu, we will be on the top table, such as UNECE to tailor the regs to suit our domestic industries, rather than whispering to the eu we would like something added on and 27 others other riding us when the commission speaks for us on the table.

We have always been on the top table as you call it with UNECE, it's not an Eu organisation.

 

[Muck Spreader]

At last
Your begining to see what real life for the majority is about

So are you and @turbo going to start revealing the secrets of profitable post Brexit farming to the rest of the community.

 

[caveman]

So are you and @turbo going to start revealing the secrets of profitable post Brexit farming to the rest of the community.

Same as it is now
Theres profitable and theres sponging off of the tax payer

 

[DrDunc]

At last
Your begining to see what real life for the majority is about

@DrDunc what are more conserned about,losing the subs or bad trade deals and if you think that being in the eu has been so good for farming why have so many left the industry while being under their wing

I would like, as any decent farmer ought to, a future that sees British agriculture flourish.

I find it contemptible that Westminster seems to be hell bent on selling the industry off for trade concessions.

I find it abhorrent that some on here actually seem to think it's a good thing that British farmers and the agricultural industry is decimated by another Tory government thinking it's better to put people onto benefits than keep them in a job.

 

[caveman]

Meanwhile.......
Us real businessmen farmers have also done our bit to chuck so many on the scrap heap with our non stop expansionist race to the bottom.
Accelerated with barstewardised EU payment schemes and regulations.
I admire your concern Dunky wunky.

 

[turbo]

I would like, as any decent farmer ought to, a future that sees British agriculture flourish.

I find it contemptible that Westminster seems to be hell bent on selling the industry off for trade concessions.

I find it abhorrent that some on here actually seem to think it's a good thing that British farmers and the agricultural industry is decimated by another Tory government thinking it's better to put people onto benefits than keep them in a job.

But has it flourished while we are in the eu,ask people that lost land to people paying bigger rents than what the land could return just because they have a big bps cheque to invest.how many people have left the industry in the last 20 years due to low profits?,something had to change and leaving the eu might be good for agriculture,we don't know but carrying on as before is not an option. The Government havnt had to look after agriculture for 40 years or should I say havnt have to worry about were food was coming from and have always had "it's Europe fault " if things went wrong now they havnt got that safety net so it will make them think more about primary production.Dont underestimate the risk of food shortages if we let our production go overseas and as far as as I am aware the mps I have spoken to are worried about it too and they know the public will blame them if it happens

 

[Danllan]

Aye, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

Great that....what is it they want to trade again?

Hmmmm, something like agricultural produce is what they want to sell, isn't it?

Good for British farming that?

Yes there's lots of stuff to do with Brexit like sovereignty, regaining control of our trustworthy truthful politicians, and keeping Johnny foreigner away from our women, but this forum is about farming.

As one somewhat vociferously vocal, though not conceited in the slightest, supporter of this headlong cliff jumping exercise has already contended in this thread, the Canadian European trade deal which imports tens of thousands of tonnes of beef into Europe has started shafting beef farmers already.

It would be nice if Westminster would give us a teany tiny bit of confidence that they're not going to continue the destruction of primary production and home shore owned manufacturing within Britain

Aye, it'll be good for us farmers to trade with Canada, New Zealand and Australia won't it

Yes it will, because it will see a hell of a lot of British farmers stop being subsidised and become businesses in the real world, as opposed to agricultural subsidy collectors - subs are 'benefits', by a different name, but they are benefits, pure and simple. If you are afraid of facing the market you're in the wrong job, go and work in the State Sector where there is no artifice around the fact that the taxpayer pays for you. I can understand your fears, they are just the same as my children before having a jab that will be in their own interest in the long run. NZ ag' went through the same thing, look at it now; if you don't think you can hack it, that's fair enough since you know your own strengths and weaknesses best, but don't label me - and others - with that tag. As the market changes I'll change my approach to it, because that is what a business does.

Your faith in the three Brexiteers is touching. However you don't both answering the central point that any trade alliances compromise domestic policy. These compromises cannot be continually abandoned by new governments without causing great economic damage. The UK is a far smaller economy than the USA, following President Trumps isolationist example would be disastrous.

The UKRAP wishful thinking won't run a modern economy, stupid to believe that is possible.

Another odd post... the 'three brexiteers' are alright, my preference being for DD. All policy is a trade-off between various factors, Government has to be utilitarian, so policy is made on that basis.

I can't see where you get any idea I advocate protectionism, imagination? The EU's economy is smaller than that of the US, yet you seem to wish EU protectionism to continue with us being a part of it, despite its clear manifold failures. We are the least protectionist of EU states and are leaving the EU and yet, oddly, are still the one with the most healthy economy... please explain how this can be.

Which UKIP policy are you saying that the current Government is implementing?

 

[Muck Spreader]

[QUOTE="Danllan, post: 3493220, member: 8735"

I can't see where you get any idea I advocate protectionism, imagination? The EU's economy is smaller than that of the US, yet you seem to wish EU protectionism to continue with us being a part of it, despite its clear manifold failures. We are the least protectionist of EU states and are leaving the EU and yet, oddly, are still the one with the most healthy economy... please explain how this can be.

[/QUOTE]

China is now the worlds biggest economy just slightly ahead of the EU (with the UK) with the US some way behind in third. The EU had been the woulds biggest economy since 2007.

 

[fudge]

Time for you to get hold of the shitty end of the stick then
Makes a change from being in a feather bedded bubble

What does that even mean? Anyone who makes the best use of their resources to succeed in the circumstances they find themselves in is being featherbedded? This is the rubbish that whinging ukrappers always come up with, they want everyone to share in their misfortune.

Yes it will, because it will see a hell of a lot of British farmers stop being subsidised and become businesses in the real world, as opposed to agricultural subsidy collectors - subs are 'benefits', by a different name, but they are benefits, pure and simple. If you are afraid of facing the market you're in the wrong job, go and work in the State Sector where there is no artifice around the fact that the taxpayer pays for you. I can understand your fears, they are just the same as my children before having a jab that will be in their own interest in the long run. NZ ag' went through the same thing, look at it now; if you don't think you can hack it, that's fair enough since you know your own strengths and weaknesses best, but don't label me - and others - with that tag. As the market changes I'll change my approach to it, because that is what a business does.



Another odd post... the 'three brexiteers' are alright, my preference being for DD. All policy is a trade-off between various factors, Government has to be utilitarian, so policy is made on that basis.

I can't see where you get any idea I advocate protectionism, imagination? The EU's economy is smaller than that of the US, yet you seem to wish EU protectionism to continue with us being a part of it, despite its clear manifold failures. We are the least protectionist of EU states and are leaving the EU and yet, oddly, are still the one with the most healthy economy... please explain how this can be.

Which UKIP policy are you saying that the current Government is implementing?

leaving the the European single market and custom union is an isolationist policy.

 

[RobFZS]

We have always been on the top table as you call it with UNECE, it's not an Eu organisation.

It's a global organisation, as i said

we are part of 1/28th of a voice there, once we leave the eu, we will have our own seat at the table, just as Norway etc do, rather than being fronted by the commission.

 

[RobFZS]

What does that even mean? Anyone who makes the best use of their resources to succeed in the circumstances they find themselves in is being featherbedded? This is the rubbish that whinging ukrappers always come up with, they want everyone to share in their misfortune.

leaving the the European single market and custom union is an isolationist policy.

And a customs union, by definition, is not isolationist?

 

[fudge]

And a customs union, by definition, is not isolationist?

Backing away from 40% of the UK's exports is isolationism.

 

[RobFZS]

Backing away from 40% of the UK's exports is isolationism.

oh sorry, i didn't know we were putting an Russian style embargo in place so nothing of that 40% gets through...

But we both know, the customs union slaps a common external tariff on everything outside it's common market, that is pure isolationism..