Hunting.....what's the point?

[Highland Mule]

So it’s entertainlent then, and the means are more important than the end?

Sorry, but if I allow hunt’s on my land, it’s only the end result I’m interested in - reduction in numbers of foxes - and (like another thread on here), I’d rather that was at minimal distress to the animal too.

Do we have any keen huntsman who object to non-stun killing of meat animals? That would be somewhat ironic....

 

[An Gof]

I think Lord (Marcus) Kimball did hunting no favours when, on TV, he answered the question in the header with "It's sport! It's venery!". I doubt 1% of the population understood what he was talking about!

Hunting ought to be a skill that brings satisfaction because it is something that is difficult, and when something difficult is done well, it ought to be satisfying. So it does not have a lot to do with killing stuff. If it's about killing, take a machine gun with you when you go deer stalking. Toss a hand grenade into the river to catch salmon, etc.

I've nothing against football and I'm sure I would enjoy it if I understood all the finer points. But I don't. That doesn't mean I want to stop everyone else's enjoyment but it does mean I won't be taken by the scruff of the neck and forced to attend a football match! If hunting doesn't appeal to you, leave it alone and let those who do enjoy it, get on with it.

It was always the case Hunting, shooting fishing and falconry etc are sports. Rugby, football and cricket etc are games

 

[Texel Tup]

So it’s entertainlent then, and the means are more important than the end?

Sorry, but if I allow hunt’s on my land, it’s only the end result I’m interested in - reduction in numbers of foxes - and (like another thread on here), I’d rather that was at minimal distress to the animal too.

Do we have any keen huntsman who object to non-stun killing of meat animals? That would be somewhat ironic....

You touch on interesting points;

Line 1: Indeed, the means is always more important than the end. If we only ever took part in field sports with the certainty of success, then it would become a mechanical exercise, rather like working in an abattoir.

Line II: Quantifying the 'Distress' levels is a rather pointless exercise. All animals suffer stress- the guide dog, the horse at a 4* Event, the pig as it waits in lairage and to be electrocuted and all so often, those poor wee dogs which I see on extending leads and at County shows.

Line III: The most interesting ponderable and one which I'm happy to support by my stance that when conducted humanely and in a professional manner, killing any mammal by the route of an immediate severing of the carotid and jugular, is a relatively pain free death. Once blood pressure collapses to 0 then an unconscious state is but a few seconds behind.

 

[Texel Tup]

As an edit to the above, and before the onslaught! - - my resistance to Halal and Kosher is the effect that it has upon us as a nation, the rifts and vexed injustices which will be clear to all.
I am opposed to non-stun slaughter because it fuels the divides within the UK rather than the imagined cruelty in the killing of an animal.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

Do we have any keen huntsman who object to non-stun killing of meat animals?

It is not possible to compare the pursuit of a highly evolved wild mammal in its natural habitat (which may or may not come to a successful conclusion) with the ritual slaughter of a captive, domestic animal that has been bred for its meat.

As far as I am aware we have no huntsmen on TFF, but I am prepared to be corrected.

 

[Red Fred]

.
Back to the question Hunting…..what's the point? The point, as I see it, is that Hunting is just one aspect of the cohesive effect upon our rural communities. Our Village; Police Officer, School, Shop, Nurse and Transport system, all so often our Pub and a host of other influences have been fragmented or disbanded entirely or fallen by the wayside. Villages are now all so often, no more than dormitories or over much of the UK, filled with second homes.
.

I would question this from what I have seen round here. I believe hunting is very cohesive for the hunting community just as fishing is for the fishing community and metal detecting is for their community, but I don't know of any of my neighbouring farmers who hunt or have any interest in it really so I don't believe it is particularly uniting as the comments on here prove. I regret the loss of our pubs and shops, but I regret the loss of our steam railways and our RAF Airfields too, but they aren't coming back as the world has moved on. I don't agree that our villages are really dead dormitories, the inhabitants have lots of leisure time, which gives us opportunities, they bring new ideas to the countryside but are just as much country dwellers as the rest of us and most are OK just like hunters and farmers. In fact, I bet many hunt followers live and work in town.Round here at least, there is a bewildering amount of stuff to do, sports to take part in, and clubs to join. Some Swedish friends came to the New Forest show and were blown away by all the competitions and "odd" rural things going on.like the largest marrow contests. I have come to believe, since meeting Mrs Fred and getting away from the farm more, that the Townie vs countryman thing is an illusion, we are all just folks getting by in 2019.

 

[Highland Mule]

It is not possible to compare the pursuit of a highly evolved wild mammal in its natural habitat (which may or may not come to a successful conclusion) with the ritual slaughter of a captive, domestic animal that has been bred for its meat.

As far as I am aware we have no huntsmen on TFF, but I am prepared to be corrected.

Maybe, but surely they’re both animals which are being put through unnecessary pre-mortality distress, purely to satisfy the desires of the killers?

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

Maybe, but surely they’re both animals which are being put through unnecessary pre-mortality distress, purely to satisfy the desires of the killers?

That's your interpretation and I doubt many will share it. You seem to assume that hunting contributes to the death of every hunted animal.

The halal lamb or kosher steer is dying to feed someone (who holds a specific set of beliefs) rather than for the slaughterman's benefit.

However, I would agree with you that the hounds enjoy their work (in much the same way as sheepdogs do), otherwise they wouldn't do it.

 

[Hilly]

So if I tell a terrier man not to dig on our farm I am a snowflake and should get a shovel to the face?

No it means it you treat folk and speak to them the way you would like to be treat that will be returned, when you start telling folk were to go for doing something well within the law expect a spade up your nose yes. Treat others as you would like to be treat yourself you wont have many problems and will gain respect.

 

[worker]

No it means it you treat folk and speak to them the way you would like to be treat that will be returned, when you start telling folk were to go for doing something well within the law expect a spade up your nose yes. Treat others as you would like to be treat yourself you wont have many problems and will gain respect.

Err no. You obviously haven't experienced the vitriol a farmer receives from a hunt when they try to stop them going over their own land. In my own experience

 

[Hilly]

Err no. You obviously haven't experienced the vitriol a farmer receives from a hunt when they try to stop them going over their own land. In my own experience

I stand by my words " treat others as you would like to be treat yourself" if everyone worked like that problems would be small, when they dont hit em and hit em hard.

 

[worker]

I stand by my words " treat others as you would like to be treat yourself" if everyone worked like that problems would be small, when they dont hit em and hit em hard.

Well it would be lovely if the hunts in Dorset shared the same opinion as you

 

[michael N123]

As halal has been brought up in this thread I’d like to point out I believe everything deserves to die as quickly as possible

So if a Fox is a problem a 22-250 ballistic tip is the answer not a pack of dogs with people chasing them

 

[Dry Rot]

As halal has been brought up in this thread I’d like to point out I believe everything deserves to die as quickly as possible

So if a Fox is a problem a 22-250 ballistic tip is the answer not a pack of dogs with people chasing them

And, presumable, someone who never misses with that rifle. Oh, if only!

 

[michael N123]

And, presumable, someone who never misses with that rifle. Oh, if only!

I never shoot a rifle apart from a .22 at rabbits the game keepers do bigger stuff

 

[Werzle]

I quite like to see the hunt and its tradition, like a few on here i dont think they catch many foxes and i have always disagreed with digging a fox out thats evaded the hounds. Im not a fan of them being dug at all if im honest, lamping them with a good marksman is the best way to control them. As for halal etc , i would like to be knocked out(stunned) before my throat is cut , the seconds or minutes it takes to pass out while i try to breath ,while blood pours out of my neck, nostrils and mouth must be the most awful terrible death. I expect those that condone it refuse all pain relief while having teeth out or operations while in hospital.

 

[JWL]

It has allways saddened me when people start discussing the different views on hunting with hounds. I was involved with foxhunting from an early age and have seen all sides. The hound breeding programme when done properly has alot of thought for the role they are to play. Just think on what you're looking for in a working collie, good outrun, clean gather, responsive drive etc, etc.
Hounds are bred for their stamina to last the day, to follow the scent without distraction, they aren't bred to be greyhounds as their "target" is a fox that is not a fit and healthy specimen. Watching a huntsman work a pack of hounds is a special sight, seeing the control he has from their respect to him is a something to stand back and watch.
A fox that is healthy will hunt for its food naturally, it's when there is a problem, could be health or a problem with inbreeding etc where that fox will turn to easier prey, lambs, poultry and so on. Foxes that have been captured in urban areas and released in the countryside are well out of their natural environment and have no idea on how to hunt and will be an "alien" to the area.
The background work of the hunt does a lot for the area to allow areas for the foxes to breed and raise their young along the lines of the shooting estates providing habitat for the game birds, just look on how woodlands were laid out to provide the best options to place the guns and enable the beaters to drive the birds forward efficiently. Much of the countryside we see today is due to the management and planning of these sportsmen from the last few centuries, to many the reasons for a lot of our countryside just passes them by, some who have worked out why find it distasteful but we only live on a small island and every inch of it has to be purposeful.
The major issue with country sports is that it has allways been seen that the upper classes are the ones benefiting but be honest it was they that were pouring the money in to provide the environment even if they did somewhat exclude the lower classes but they did provide employment.
The issues that have been underlying since the dawn of time is this class issue, so many people have hang ups about those that they think have more than them, the old jealousy factor which is such a damned powerful emotion for some.
As a parting comment as I feel that I've been rambling on enough, my father's definition of a sportsman was a man who would be big enough to walk away from a chase of the quarry when the prey has bettered the huntsman, doff his hat and acknowledge that on that day he wasn't good enough. All those that think footballers are sportsmen are wrong, they are just ball players.

 

[Texel Tup]

……..
As a parting comment as I feel that I've been rambling on enough, my father's definition of a sportsman was a man who would be big enough to walk away from a chase of the quarry when the prey has bettered the huntsman, doff his hat and acknowledge that on that day he wasn't good enough. All those that think footballers are sportsmen are wrong, they are just ball players.

An interesting letter and thank you. The whole point about field sports is that it isn't a competition - ok so facing an irate elephant may have us considering the cost of losing, but generally, and as you seem to imply, it's the taking part which matters and whilst doing so, we are as happy to come home empty handed, as not.
I also feel that today, field sports are a great leveller with the dwindling influence of social classes being replaced by the new and perceived class - Money, and that's just how it is, rightly or wrongly.