Can only speak for my own area but these subs are going to family farms, without them these communities and farms will no longer exist. You are talking about the removal of a culture,heritage and way of life, if this was happening to any other indigenous people across the world there would be an international outrage.
Is BPS actually good value for money?
- Thread starter Sid
- Start date
ollie989898
Member
I don't argue with that at all, but if a policy is handing hundreds of thousands of pounds to NGOs like the RSPB and National trust, or landowners sat on 2000 acres, then it's hardly a justifiable use of taxpayers money, is it?
There is no doubt in my mind that some farms in some areas should qualify for payments linked to their environmental potential or where the public have extensive access they can do nothing about (i.e Dartmoor where folk seem to go wherever they please).
Seen that a lot here over the years with my offspring and their partners, a glass of wine maybe, if it is not too challenging...
My lad likes a few beers, and like me, enjoys a glass with a meal. Pubs are not that much of a focus for many under 25s
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Down here there are very few small family farms left making a living purely from the farm. I don’t know who’d you support round here in order to retain a traditional way of life or culture. That all went years ago.
I wouldn’t begrudge continued support for hill farmers where livestock is the only option, dairy farming, sheep etc. It’s damned hard work and in my view an essential part of U.K. farming.
But here in the arable East I’d say we should be able to manage. Most are agro industrial concerns with huge wealth in other industries anyway.
yes I agree they should stop all government benefits to rich people
they should stop rich people using the road for a start
Certainly not if we are talking Local Govt Policy....
- Location
- Isle of Skye
Regardless of whether or not family farms can survive posts subs, Is it not the case that the agricultural culture. heritage and way of life you speak of has already been removed from most indigenous peoples across most of Europe. I'm not sure why the culture in the Highlands should be worth more than the culture already lost elsewhere?
A culture that requires perpetual propping up financially from outside doesn't seem worth much IMHO, and ultimately if you really wanted to continue a way of life that will maintain your culture and heritage you could always move into a blackhouse and try subsistence living, nobody is stopping anybody from doing so and it costs nothing.
I think it is the difference between Scotland and England ,85% of our land is Lfa whereas in England it is 15% . Livestock farms tend to be smaller family units.
Swap walnuts for apples and that's about where I'm at....
Day job pays the capital, bps pays insurance, fuel and a bit of fert. If I'm really lucky then this years harvest will replace the bps element.
To be fair we get some laughs from it, woman from DEFRA told me I could claim £10 a tree under ELMS - when I told her I've got 5000 trees the line went very quiet!!!!
- Location
- S.E
Just to put this into perspective India has just announced an ADDITIONAL $2 BILLION to subsidise fertiliser for its farmers
- Location
- Isle of Skye
Yes that may be, but I still don't see the link between wanting to preserve your culture and wanting everybody else to subsidise your lifestyle for evermore. Nobody is stopping anybody from preserving their culture, why anybody else would be expected to pay taxes to preserve somebody else's culture, I can't understand.
Which culture is it that you feel will be lost anyway? The folk who dwelled in the brochs thousands of years ago? The more recently constructed system of subsistence farming known as crofting? or the more modern hill sheep and cattle businesses that the clearances paved the way for?
It could be argued that the majority of successful family farms in the Highlands are actually running a hill farming system that was relatively recently imported from the Borders.
I can see that you are totally against any form of support which is fair enough but I don’t think you realise the implications of letting the free market rule . I think you make a proportion of your income from fencing,if the livestock go as they surely must without support there is then no need for fences . Your local Harbro store closes as it is the livestock supplies that ensures its existence. Your auction mart close due to lack of throughput . Your haulage contractor stops trading as he no longer has livestock or hay to transport. The list is endless of the effects of the removal of support. These effects are multiplied on the west coast of Scotland as the alternatives are limited.
feckin tell me about it
Funnily enough, 35 years ago, the very first 'management agreements' came about for those farming ground with high enviro values, but which the public pressure made farming them difficult
I saw exactly that on my alpine jollies a couple of years ago...
heavily subsidised hill (OK, mountain) livestock farming, where the cow culture was wholly engrained in the locale. tourism hinged on the cows keeping the mountain pasture clear, and the farmers were all integral to the culture as a whole.
I wish we were held in the same high regard here.
ollie989898
Member
I have seen much European agriculture. The majority of it is in two camps: a smallish operation where the farmer works part time in another vocation. The rest is in big agribusiness. What we have in the UK is mirrored elsewhere, it's not just the UK.
- Location
- Isle of Skye
I understand your concerns, I think they are overly pessimistic, but a lot of farmers seem to think that the coming generations wont be able to overcome any problems. No offence, but It's slightly arrogant to think that nobody can do things better than you. That being said I appreciate that an abrupt end of support would see an immediate loss of a significant number of businesses. I'd rather more would see that the good times that subsidies have brought can't last forever and adapt to try and prioritise profitability whilst they can still afford to, an abrupt crash needn't be the case.
I believe that generations of subsidy is what has led to this situation of unprofitable businesses dominating the landscape, and also believe that there will always be a future for agriculture in the area, even in the unlikely event that all aid is withdrawn. However I suspect that money will be thrown at crofting in particular for the foreseeable future.
Would you just quit and sell up if all schemes and grants ended tomorrow?
And who says that you aren't held in the same high regard ?
All you have to do is explain to Defra why all area based ELMS needs to go to PP, and you will be getting the same support as your Alpine cousins.
I hope you have applied to be a pilot ? The sooner Defra get overwhelmed by the nonsense of their current proposals the better.
er...me. I endure a daily exchange, whenever the weather isn't blowing a driving rain storm, with the GB public.
And 15-25% would be completely ignorant of what I do, while 10% know enough to want me gone/controlled/dead.
By comparison, where I was herding cows in the south tyrol, the visiting public uniformly adore the idea that the cows still go to the mountains, wear bells, and generally keep up traditions. They buy the produce, expect it to cost whatever it does, and would be outraged by a government that suggested 'rewilding'.
(indeed, the debate rages there, as central Italian gov toy with protecting predators, while regional gov says 'do what you have to boys!')