June 2022 SFI standards and payment rates

[farmerm]

Unless the rates change I'm getting less bothered about being in SFI - its such a small about of money vs CSS and IDSO carbon value its hardly worth the bother

selling last years sequestration has paid me nicely and even if selling carbon sequestration on SFI entered land does become unallowable as its sold on a year on year basis I could simply stop selling going forward if the sfi was more attractive (unlikely from what I see so far !) - the only longer term commitment made when selling ISO carbon certificates is not to deep cultivate for 5 years, thats not something of relevance to SFI that I can see

CSS is looking a much better option for us and nothing in that to prevent Carbon sequestration sale

How long until the penny drops with buyers of carbon certificates and the public that carbon certificates which impose no long term commitment on the seller is simply a modern day emperors new clothes sham and is absolute gross miss selling? If I pay a landfill for the service of taking my waste I expect them to keep it indefinitely, I do not expect there to be a clause in the small print that allows them to dig it up and fly tip it after 5 years! Carbon sequestation means indefinitely or it means nothing, in fact it is worse than nothing, it creates a false sense of complacency.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Hi, @Janet Hughes Defra. Please could you explain the rationale behind the double funding rules with the private sector. We have a volunteer scheme where local businesses send their staff to us to do land management activities for team building (scrub work, hedge laying, etc). Would volunteer labour count as funding?

The rules around private sector funding are that you can have both, on the same land - see the guidance here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

 

[Huno]

Your rules say clearly not if it is the same thing from a water or electrical company or a load of other organisations....

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

I'll stick my neck out here.

Are DEFRA and HM Government using farmers to produce carbon credits, then selling them? Is that why we can't do both?

You can do both, as set out here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

I think so, although would be helpful to have it said explicitly. Very frustrating - I don’t think carbon credits are a good option, but haven’t they been promoting them to farmers?

Am I correct in thinking you can't claim SFI if you've sold your carbon credits?

Is that right?

No that's not right, you can do both: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

 

[Clive]

How long until the penny drops with buyers of carbon certificates and the public that carbon certificates which impose no long term commitment on the seller is simply a modern day emperors new clothes sham and is absolute gross miss selling? If I pay a landfill for the service of taking my waste I expect them to keep it indefinitely, I do not expect there to be a clause in the small print that allows them to dig it up and fly tip it after 5 years! Carbon sequestation means indefinitely or it means nothing, in fact it is worse than nothing, it creates a false sense of complacency.

not so simple, nothing is for ever, not even coal or oil !

There is a LOT of assumption and misunderstand around how carbon markets are working an how they produce real benefit and genuine next gain, it's not my job to explain that though and I gain nothing by doing so. I've reasserted and learnt how it all works an am confident Im doing the right thing both environmentally / morally and finically


lot of uniformed "experts" in this area frankly, its a complex, confusing and new subject so thats understandable I guess

 

[Huno]

Read the heading " other funding sources" NO YOU CANNOT

 

[Clive]

You can do both, as set out here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

No that's not right, you can do both: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

Thanks for the conformation Janet - lot of confusion around this specifically as you can see, these markets are growing fast as farmers like myself receive their first actual payments for ISO carbon sequestration now from companies like Agreena. Ironically maybe I can use the money to buy some fertiliser next year !!

 

[BrianV]

You can do both, as set out here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

Thank goodness you intelligent guys are designing such a simple scheme, I was worried it would take more than an afternoon to work out but it seems you just have to take a look & say feck that for a lark & it's all done & finished with!!

 

[Huno]

No that's not right, you can do both: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

Reading the heading " other funding sources" No you CANNOT enter SFI for that land

 

[Huno]

It doesn't matter what @Janet Hughes Defra says on these forums.. we all know that when you ask these questions to the RPA they interpret these policy documents and the default answer is always " no we wont fund that"

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Thanks for the conformation Janet - lot of confusion around this specifically as you can see, these markets are growing fast as farmers like myself receive their first actual payments for ISO carbon sequestration now from companies like Agreena. Ironically maybe I can use the money to buy some fertiliser next year !!

I'm not sure what has been confirmed.
What the first sentence gives, the rest takes away;

Private sector schemes​

In 2022, you can enter the same area of land into an SFI standards agreement and a private sector scheme arrangement, such as carbon trading or payments for natural flood management.

This is only possible if you are not being paid twice for similar environmental land management actions legally required in your SFI standards agreement and the private sector scheme.

You also need to meet the rules and requirements of the private sector scheme, including:

• whether the environmental outcome is additional to what you’re delivering in the SFI standards agreement (‘additionality’)
• verification of the environmental outcomes

The approach to private sector schemes will be reviewed by Defra annually.

Other funding sources​

You cannot enter land into an SFI standards agreement if you are receiving funding from another source to do similar environmental land management actions on that land.

This includes funding received from:

• local authorities
• National Park Authorities or AONB grant schemes, apart from Farming in Protected Landscapes
• the Highways Agency
• the National Lottery
• a crown body, such as the Duchy of Cornwall
• energy and water companies

Even the requirement to not plough could be considered a similar land management action rendering your agreement invalid.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

We have been shouting at Janet Hughes on her Landscape Recovery thread about this for 2 days but the record has got stuck there with the same replies... SFI is not fit for purpose and is certainly not available to all Land Managers

I'm not sure what has been confirmed.
What the first sentence gives, the rest takes away;

Private sector schemes​

In 2022, you can enter the same area of land into an SFI standards agreement and a private sector scheme arrangement, such as carbon trading or payments for natural flood management.

This is only possible if you are not being paid twice for similar environmental land management actions legally required in your SFI standards agreement and the private sector scheme.

You also need to meet the rules and requirements of the private sector scheme, including:

• whether the environmental outcome is additional to what you’re delivering in the SFI standards agreement (‘additionality’)
• verification of the environmental outcomes

The approach to private sector schemes will be reviewed by Defra annually.

Other funding sources​

You cannot enter land into an SFI standards agreement if you are receiving funding from another source to do similar environmental land management actions on that land.

This includes funding received from:

• local authorities
• National Park Authorities or AONB grant schemes, apart from Farming in Protected Landscapes
• the Highways Agency
• the National Lottery
• a crown body, such as the Duchy of Cornwall
• energy and water companies

Even the requirement to not plough could be considered a similar land management action rendering your agreement invalid.

I can see this is confusing, these caveats have been added in in error, we are correcting it now and I will post the corrected version here shortly. I'm sorry about that.

The position is as in the first paragraph and as previously announced - the rules of SFI are plainly and simply that you can have SFI alongside private schemes on the same land.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Reading the heading " other funding sources" No you CANNOT enter SFI for that land

I'm sorry John, I can see what you mean, there are some caveats that have been added in error, we are correcting it now. The position is as I've said, and as previously announced: you can have SFI and private schemes on the same land. I will post the updated section as soon as possible, and I apologise for the error and the confusion it's caused.

 

[Huno]

I have a great deal of respect for you Janet for just publically replying with that answer that a mistake was made... Have a good weekend and thank you for sparring with us on this forum... kind regards

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

I'm sorry John, I can see what you mean, there are some caveats that have been added in error, we are correcting it now. The position is as I've said, and as previously announced: you can have SFI and private schemes on the same land. I will post the updated section as soon as possible, and I apologise for the error and the confusion it's caused.

I can see this is confusing, these caveats have been added in in error, we are correcting it now and I will post the corrected version here shortly. I'm sorry about that.

The position is as in the first paragraph and as previously announced - the rules of SFI are plainly and simply that you can have SFI alongside private schemes on the same land.

Just to confirm this part of the guidance has now been updated: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

It now says this, and only this:

'Private sector schemes​

In 2022, you can enter the same area of land into an SFI standards agreement and a private sector scheme arrangement, such as carbon trading or payments for natural flood management.

The approach to private sector schemes will be reviewed by Defra annually.'


Apologies again for the confusion. We are working out how this happened so we don't repeat the same mistake in future, and doing another review of all the content to make sure there are definitely no other errors.

 

[delilah]

I heard the interview sounded right noises but I think JA is on the board or recently left as a board member at Natural England. Seems in a minority of one talking any sense on that board.

Encouragingly she is on Janet's Elms Engagement Group, i'm sure she will be forcibly putting the case for PP there.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Encouragingly she is on Janet's Elms Engagement Group, i'm sure she will be forcibly putting the case for PP there.

Yes, that's right - Julia is on our engagement group and we have regular one to one conversations too

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Janet's Groundswell answer appears contrary to the new rules. Or at least, clarification is needed.

Don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but if you are getting paid in a private scheme for non-inversion tillage, then that might prevent entry into the higher tier when it becomes available in a year or two's time.

I'm convinced DEFRA might be selling/using the carbon credits created by ELMS.

Apologies, some caveats had been added into the guidance in error, we have now clarified it and removed those caveats - the rules are as previously announced: you can be in both SFI and private schemes on the same land. Sorry for the error and confusion - updated guidance is here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

 

[Fenchurch]

Many thanks Janet for the clarification and quick correction!