Leadsom admits uncertainty over post-Brexit environmental laws

[DrDunc]

you said we would crash and burn the day after june 23rd, but do tell me how that extra money in your sfp cheque's going to charity yeh? hypocrite.

As Hilly said, might and probably will, whats the massive rush? Brexit is a process, everything will take time.

The extra sfp will be swallowed up by the increased business input costs due to the frighteningly weakened points.

Still waiting for the increased value of the farm produce we were told we'd get with the same weakened pound.

Net result is less net margin (if you Google net margin, it'll explain what that is).



Please, quote your reference to crash and burn.

Please also indicate what the benefits of Brexit are supposed to be for agriculture. Despite numerous requests, you've still not managed to come up with anything.

 

[Hilly]

The extra sfp will be swallowed up by the increased business input costs due to the frighteningly weakened points.

Still waiting for the increased value of the farm produce we were told we'd get with the same weakened pound.

Net result is less net margin (if you Google net margin, it'll explain what that is).



Please, quote your reference to crash and burn.

Please also indicate what the benefits of Brexit are supposed to be for agriculture. Despite numerous requests, you've still not managed to come up with anything.

If you are importing as much or more on to your farm than your selling you really are in trouble.

 

[RobFZS]

The extra sfp will be swallowed up by the increased business input costs due to the frighteningly weakened points.

Still waiting for the increased value of the farm produce we were told we'd get with the same weakened pound.

Net result is less net margin (if you Google net margin, it'll explain what that is).



Please, quote your reference to crash and burn.

Please also indicate what the benefits of Brexit are supposed to be for agriculture. Despite numerous requests, you've still not managed to come up with anything.

Oh so we're not going to crash and burn now? your last comment pretty much embodies it.

SFP is up, milk price is Up thanks to currency adjustments directly due to the vote, it's your fault if you're a spend thrift, ffs you were asking how to reseed ground properly a couple months back, just because you're bad at business, doesn't mean everyone else is suffering.

Quick example will be input prices being lower from the removal of the common external tarrif, if you get of your arse instead of moaning on here, you might even get a say at adjusting rules and legislation through Unece to make your business work better, currency will be permanently lower making exports more competitive, what inputs are you using to be effected soo much on a beef and sheep farm?

Don't try and be clever, you're only surviving because of the subs so that speaks volumes to me, i'm fairly sure you're trolling though.

 

[RobFZS]

If you are importing as much or more on to your farm than your selling you really are in trouble.

the guys a failed farmer and we're all paying for him to carry on.

 

[wasted years]

The only double standards involve remainers who can't accept the will of the people.

Some people, not all, don't we count?
There isn't a chance to reverse this decision unlike a general election,although I doubt that we will actually leave in reality.
How any leaver has the brass neck to be proud of the result when the majority of EU rules (environmental rules) are simply to be cut and pasted into UK law is beyond me.
Wasn't doing our own thing the whole point?
I remember David Maclean (former Penrith and the border MP) saying that reppealing UK law is more or less impossible and the only law he managed to be involved in repealing was a 200 year old law about lights on horse drawn carriages.

 

[RobFZS]

Some people, not all, don't we count?
There isn't a chance to reverse this decision unlike a general election,although I doubt that we will actually leave in reality.
How any leaver has the brass neck to be proud of the result when the majority of EU rules (environmental rules) are simply to be cut and pasted into UK law is beyond me.
Wasn't doing our own thing the whole point?
I remember David Maclean (former Penrith and the border MP) saying that reppealing UK law is more or less impossible and the only law he managed to be involved in repealing was a 200 year old law about lights on horse drawn carriages.

So you think, within 2 years, we're going to fully recreate a new agricultural policy? that is the idea of taking on the rules of the eu now, as there are bigger fish to fry in the meantime.

Eventually we will diverge in laws from the eu, that is when the real benefits of brexit will kick in.

 

[wasted years]

So you think, within 2 years, we're going to fully recreate a new agricultural policy? that is the idea of taking on the rules of the eu now, as there are bigger fish to fry in the meantime.

Eventually we will diverge in laws from the eu, that is when the real benefits of brexit will kick in.

You are making it up as you go along with respect.
Why on earth couldn't a new Ag policy be drawn up in 2 years, we already have one and the 'experts' pre Brexit all said they knew what was wrong with it!
I can't remember anyone saying we would take on the EU rules while we 'fry bigger fish 'either.

 

[gone up the hill]

Maybe you didn't, but Guth was definitely saying that we could chuck the rule book away, bring back banned chemicals and stick two fingers up to farm assurance etc.
I didn't believe him, but I honestly think alot of farmers did.
It is what it is, and theres no turning back, but I don't think any of our leaders have a clue what to do about trade deals etc. A right dogs dinner, and we will be left as piggy in the middle, while they try and figure it out. You'd think the politicians who pushed for out, would've at least had some idea.

Sorry but please don't put words into my mouth, I never said that we will do away with farm assurance and as for the rules and regs, there is no reason that within 2/3 years of leaving the EU that we wont be using chemical's etc that are banned in the EU at that time!

Ref GM, UK feed company's are using GM products.

You are right about the UK farm leaders thou, the NFU are in one hell of a mess over Brexit, they rushed out that massive consultation back in the summer when everyone was too busy to attend the meetings, when it closes they say : oh that's it now until Feb 2017 when we will announce our policy document on it so quite clear they don't know what to do.

 

[ollie989898]

You are making it up as you go along with respect.
Why on earth couldn't a new Ag policy be drawn up in 2 years, we already have one and the 'experts' pre Brexit all said they knew what was wrong with it!
I can't remember anyone saying we would take on the EU rules while we 'fry bigger fish 'either.

So you want DEATHRA, which is now populated by idiots with environmental degrees, to rush together a UK ag policy, inside a 2 year timeframe, and in a hurry under political pressure, and they will invariably use expert advice like from Melchett...???

The thought of them making up their own policy in haste is enough to fill you with real real fear I would suggest?

This is the same group of people who can't fathom a solution to bovine TB yet it is a problem that has been staring them in the face for how long??

There will be a phase of transition as the UK begins to formulate it's own policy and legislation. This will have to happen in many more industries than just agriculture, which understandably will not be given a huge amount of priority.

In the meantime, they will simply mimic EU existing legislation, and then will have consultations with industry about what might be changed. THIS will be the time for the like of the NFU and other stakeholders to make their thoughts known.

I am WAY more concerned about the UK's trade policy post BREXIT than anything else, the economy will hang in the balance if they get any of this wrong.

You need to remember that the experience and knowledge of trade and legislative negotiations in government and the civil service is probably lacking today- there has been a reduced need for it compared to say in 1960.

There is a heck of a lot to play for in a new independent UK but it will take some very careful thinking that is for sure, and as with many trade agreements, you can never have it all your own way.

 

[RobFZS]

You are making it up as you go along with respect.
Why on earth couldn't a new Ag policy be drawn up in 2 years, we already have one and the 'experts' pre Brexit all said they knew what was wrong with it!
I can't remember anyone saying we would take on the EU rules while we 'fry bigger fish 'either.

If you think we can create new legislation is that time, you're clueless, look how long it takes to sort out sfp every year, Richard North said he and Owen Paterson took 5 years alone to write the frame work for a new CFP

It ain't going to happen, so stop trying to try and be unreasonable on time scales and blame it all on leaving.

Anyone other than the media faces of brexit said everything would take time, when has any political procedure been quick?

i see no issue with sticking with what we have now, untill a reasonable time in the future where we can have a proper look at agri and put what is right.

 

[wasted years]

So you want DEATHRA, which is now populated by idiots with environmental degrees, to rush together a UK ag policy, inside a 2 year timeframe, and in a hurry under political pressure, and they will invariably use expert advice like from Melchett...???

The thought of them making up their own policy in haste is enough to fill you with real real fear I would suggest?

This is the same group of people who can't fathom a solution to bovine TB yet it is a problem that has been staring them in the face for how long??

There will be a phase of transition as the UK begins to formulate it's own policy and legislation. This will have to happen in many more industries than just agriculture, which understandably will not be given a huge amount of priority.

In the meantime, they will simply mimic EU existing legislation, and then will have consultations with industry about what might be changed. THIS will be the time for the like of the NFU and other stakeholders to make their thoughts known.

I am WAY more concerned about the UK's trade policy post BREXIT than anything else, the economy will hang in the balance if they get any of this wrong.

You need to remember that the experience and knowledge of trade and legislative negotiations in government and the civil service is probably lacking today- there has been a reduced need for it compared to say in 1960.

There is a heck of a lot to play for in a new independent UK but it will take some very careful thinking that is for sure, and as with many trade agreements, you can never have it all your own way.

2 years haste? Ye gods.
Just who do you think will be formulating UK AG policy if not civil servants in Defra? A tyre fitter from Kendal?
You mention the farce of TB, the poklicy in England has never reflected the EU's position on disease control as I understand it.
Surprising isn't it , that we can follow rules when we want , and ignore others when it suits.

 

[ollie989898]

2 years haste? Ye gods.
Just who do you think will be formulating UK AG policy if not civil servants in Defra? A tyre fitter from Kendal?
You mention the farce of TB, the poklicy in England has never reflected the EU's position on disease control as I understand it.
Surprising isn't it , that we can follow rules when we want , and ignore others when it suits.

You misunderstand me.

I have utterly no doubt that the motley collection of environmental science graduates that now populate DEATHRA, are perfectly able, (with the help of their pals in the Environmental agency, Natural England, the RSPB, National trust and countless other bodies to whom production agriculture is anathema), of creating some ag policy within 2 years. What I am concerned about, is that the policy they construe amongst themselves might be wholly detrimental to the kind of agriculture the majority of us are currently engaged in.

You need only look at the complete farce that the draining works in the Somerset levels became to become very afraid at just what the people in these Quangos and departments are (in)capable of.

 

[More to life]

You misunderstand me.

I have utterly no doubt that the motley collection of environmental science graduates that now populate DEATHRA, are perfectly able, (with the help of their pals in the Environmental agency, Natural England, the RSPB, National trust and countless other bodies to whom production agriculture is anathema), of creating some ag policy within 2 years. What I am concerned about, is that the policy they construe amongst themselves might be wholly detrimental to the kind of agriculture the majority of us are currently engaged in.

You need only look at the complete farce that the draining works in the Somerset levels became to become very afraid at just what the people in these Quangos and departments are (in)capable of.

Would anybody in there right mind expect defra to improve our current situation.
Going forward I can't see how it can be anything other than a hard brexit ,agreement will be impossible. It might work out for the best it might not, ha ho.

 

[wasted years]

You misunderstand me.

I have utterly no doubt that the motley collection of environmental science graduates that now populate DEATHRA, are perfectly able, (with the help of their pals in the Environmental agency, Natural England, the RSPB, National trust and countless other bodies to whom production agriculture is anathema), of creating some ag policy within 2 years. What I am concerned about, is that the policy they construe amongst themselves might be wholly detrimental to the kind of agriculture the majority of us are currently engaged in.

You need only look at the complete farce that the draining works in the Somerset levels became to become very afraid at just what the people in these Quangos and departments are (in)capable of.

So what is your plan to rid us of these people and to populate the establishment with red faced sons of the soil?
You are joking aren't you, that voting Brexit is some kind of magic wand to get back 't good old days?

 

[RobFZS]

Would anybody in there right mind expect defra to improve our current situation.
Going forward I can't see how it can be anything other than a hard brexit ,agreement will be impossible. It might work out for the best it might not, ha ho.

nah there will be a decent deal, all this talk of hard brexit is just to keep all options open

 

[More to life]

nah there will be a decent deal, all this talk of hard brexit is just to keep all options open

Have you tried herding cats rob the Canada deal is a window into the future. It only takes one to pull the plug and it's not like we are particularly popular at the moment.

 

[RobFZS]

Have you tried herding cats rob the Canada deal is a window into the future. It only takes one to pull the plug and it's not like we are particularly popular at the moment.

the Canada deal is something totally different, when has the eu not had our market? ofcourse they'll moan about opening a new market up, don't for one second think the eu won't somehow force the walloons to sign this deal

Millions of jobs are connected to trade with the Uk, how much trade is linked with Canada? a fraction of it, so the 2 situations are totally different.

 

[More to life]

the Canada deal is something totally different, when has the eu not had our market? ofcourse they'll moan about opening a new market up, don't for one second think the eu won't somehow force the walloons to sign this deal

Millions of jobs are connected to trade with the Uk, how much trade is linked with Canada? a fraction of it, so the 2 situations are totally different.

Still only takes one to stamp there feet at the last minute we will only have two years. I do hope your right tho, I think they will sell everything to keep the city trading. Do you fancy compulsory German cars and French food with a conveyor belt of Eastern Europeans.

 

[DrDunc]

nah there will be a decent deal, all this talk of hard brexit is just to keep all options open

There are people who also believe that they will go to heaven with 72 virgins, but there's no evidence to back this claim up either.

Wherever anyone questions certain posters belief in the supposed benefits of Brexit, they are ridiculed and insulted. The fact that there is not even an attempt to answer the debating points raised indicates they have no argument to offer.

Indeed, it could be concluded that they derive a level of enjoyment from posting inflammatory, but factually empty entries to the forum.

What are the benefits of Brexit to agriculture?

 

[RushesToo]

[edited to correct spelling mistakes made in frustration]
@Guy Smith summed up this fiasco rather politely [from the link given]:


Guy Smith: Doesn’t that rather beg the question as to where the European Union is headed in the future? Part of our challenge as a representative body for farmers is that we are very aware that the situation is quite volatile. Although we are keen to distil from our members what they want out of the future and show some certainty and some leadership, we will have to remain very politically light-footed. With respect to you ladies and gentlemen, I am not sure you know what is coming and what water is going to flow under the bridge over the next two or three years. This is where we are at the moment.

Basically you lot haven't a clue and you expect us to respond to ill thought out, made up on the hoof laws immediately. We FARM FFS, not run a software company.

There are a bunch of NIMBY's [go and destroy the environment elsewhere to make food] that have the upper hand at the moment and it looks very very difficult to respond to as there is NO direction.

Scuppered by politicians with slogans and people that have the ears of the public with nothing between their wears to think about the 5, 10 50 year impact of what they decide,

What a godwaful mess.

No leadership, no vision and no plan.