- Location
- America's dairyland
watch both versions for the more of the incident, neither charged yet, may go before a grand jury to decide charges. Not for sensitive viewers.
meanwhile in Texas...
- Thread starter Wisconsonian
- Start date
watch both versions for the more of the incident, neither charged yet, may go before a grand jury to decide charges. Not for sensitive viewers.
AndrewB
Member
- Location
- Kincardineshire
Looks like the customer has had some professional training, very calm and accurate!
I’m not sure he needed the head shot while lying on the ground, but I think US law says if the first shot is justified you can carry on until the threat is neutralised.
I’m not sure he needed the head shot while lying on the ground, but I think US law says if the first shot is justified you can carry on until the threat is neutralised.
Lincs Lass
Member
- Location
- north lincs
Dont think a self defence plea will help him much ,turned the robber into a colander
How does something like this play out when the cops arrive @Wisconsonian ...........obviously Texas has its own specific laws but do they just review the CCTV footage, take statements & the shooter continues with his day or is he pulled into custody & treated like a mass murderer like he would be here?
- Location
- America's dairyland
In this case, he left, later turned himself into the police with his lawyer present, not charged yet, but could be depending on the political leanings of the local prosecutor. This was Houston so a liberal prosecutor who won't let it go easily.
He might or might not have had any training. In some states a hunter safety course taken by most rural 12 year olds is enough training to get a concealed carry permit. No training required in some states, no permits in a few states. Open carry in some states, carry a handgun visible in a holster with zero permit/license, allowed into most public places.
He might or might not have had any training. In some states a hunter safety course taken by most rural 12 year olds is enough training to get a concealed carry permit. No training required in some states, no permits in a few states. Open carry in some states, carry a handgun visible in a holster with zero permit/license, allowed into most public places.
Here, the police would block the street off for a week with a space reserved for flowers for the ‘victim’. But from now on he wont cost the state a penny or reoffend.
But in the US, approximately 2/3rds of gun deaths are suicides (C. 20,000 per annum) using a gun bought for ‘home defence’. A long term ‘solution’ for short term problems, leaving families destroyed in their wake.
But in the US, approximately 2/3rds of gun deaths are suicides (C. 20,000 per annum) using a gun bought for ‘home defence’. A long term ‘solution’ for short term problems, leaving families destroyed in their wake.
- Location
- Devon
First few shots fully justified.
There was no need for 9.
There was no need for 9.
Not debating the morality of whether this is right or wrong.
Legally, in the UK, this is excessive use of force. This type of incident is why some (including soldiers in conflict zones) are arrested, tried and imprisoned.
If you genuinely feel threatened (and can justify why you feel threatened) you can strike first; but once a threat is no longer a threat, you have to stop. Even if the adrenaline is pumping.
Legally, in the UK, this is excessive use of force. This type of incident is why some (including soldiers in conflict zones) are arrested, tried and imprisoned.
If you genuinely feel threatened (and can justify why you feel threatened) you can strike first; but once a threat is no longer a threat, you have to stop. Even if the adrenaline is pumping.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Problem is what justifiably threatened is. I could fully believe someone permanently terrified as most Texans would be hence the amount of guns. Then you add a trigger and the following adrenaline then to them it is very much a justified response to empty your gun into someone.
- Location
- America's dairyland
In Texas the law allows use of force to RECOVER property, he doesn't even need to prove self defense according to the statutes. Very few, if any other US states are like this.
It's easy to sit here and watch and say the guy was headed for the door, he should have stopped shooting when he was down, but this happened in a blur to the people there.
The deceased was out on parole from a 15 year sentence from a robbery/murder of a cell phone store clerk in 2015, along with two others.
It's easy to sit here and watch and say the guy was headed for the door, he should have stopped shooting when he was down, but this happened in a blur to the people there.
The deceased was out on parole from a 15 year sentence from a robbery/murder of a cell phone store clerk in 2015, along with two others.
I've watched too many movies where the shot baddie is never fully dead & survives or returns to be a PITA...........better emptying the gun to make sure
........ that & folk running up stairs away from danger WTF
In the second video, at 12-seconds (when the criminal is shot, falls to the ground, and the pistol he is carrying is dropped and out of reach) is when the threat no longer exists and should stop shooting and take control of the situation (weapon and criminal).
In the unlikely event the criminal recovers and grabs the pistol on the ground, or the pistol the customer is using, then the threat resumes - but you can't go on to shoot some one lying on the ground base on an assumption that they may just get up and start shooting again.
"justifiably threatened" may include some or all of: verbal threats of violence, close distance between two parties, presence of a weapon, number of people involved (one of you, two/three/four or more of them - or vice versa which reduces the threat), non-verbal communications such as posture (clenched fist, puffed chest/aggressive stance), staring, manic behaviour.
It can be quite complex in some scenarios. And straightforward in others.
As I say, I'm not debating the morality here...
In the UK, at 12-seconds in the second video is when a UK liberal lawyer will wet their knickers and claim excessive use of force.
I've watched too many movies where the shot baddie is never fully dead & survives or returns to be a PITA...........better emptying the gun to make sure
Me too... me the missus are always shouting at the TV... "make sure the f**kers dead!! They'll only turn up a few scenes later and you've only got yourself to blame!"
Just watched it.
I'd not have a problem clearing that fella.
He sat there while being threatend with a gun by a masked robber.
Saw his chance to save himself and others and took it, which was over in not many seconds.
The armed robber shouldn't have been doing it, took the risk, and lost.
Well done to the man that stopped him
There'd be a lot less crime if the offender's stopped existing because of it.
And no I don't agree with keep filling prisons up with murderers and rapist's, knock em on the head.
I'd not have a problem clearing that fella.
He sat there while being threatend with a gun by a masked robber.
Saw his chance to save himself and others and took it, which was over in not many seconds.
The armed robber shouldn't have been doing it, took the risk, and lost.
Well done to the man that stopped him
There'd be a lot less crime if the offender's stopped existing because of it.
And no I don't agree with keep filling prisons up with murderers and rapist's, knock em on the head.
The UK has historically been a reasonably safe place without the population carrying guns for personal safety or deterrent.
The reality is as population expands the U.K is slowly becoming more lawless & life is becoming cheaper here year on year, I wonder how long it will be before we are witnessing similar scenarios like this at our side of the pond.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I just don't get why you would rob a Texan restaurant with a gun surely he must know there is a very high probability at least one or multiple people in the restaurant are carrying guns. Either a very low IQ or drugs must of been involved...
Chae1
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I worked in Texas a few years ago. Went there for harvest. It never crossed my mind people would be carrying guns.
One thing I did notice though was people were a lot more respectful to one another and less @r$eholes going about acting the big man. I'm referring to evenings out in bars, clubs, rodeos.
I'm guessing the threat of getting shot, made people think twice about being cheeky and giving people lip. Was a better atmosphere than local towns/cities in Scotland.
One thing I did notice though was people were a lot more respectful to one another and less @r$eholes going about acting the big man. I'm referring to evenings out in bars, clubs, rodeos.
I'm guessing the threat of getting shot, made people think twice about being cheeky and giving people lip. Was a better atmosphere than local towns/cities in Scotland.