Mercedes X-Class Pickup Drive

[Clive]

Yes, Mercedes have their own three year warranty, which they no doubt claim the claims from Nissan, the manufacturer. Nissan, however, give a five year warranty as standard despite being sold at near 50% of the price.

So buy the bloody Nissan then !

Not for a moment have I disagreed that it’s not far better value

But it’s not the same (as in identical) there are very clear difference

 

[Beowulf]

Car "manufacturers" make very little if any of their vehicles. They are a collection of components built by ZF, Bosch, Denso, Delphi, Gates etc and bolted together in a facility which may or may not be owned by the "manufacturer".

All this talk of it not being a Merc because it has a Nissan stamp on the air filter housing is the sort of nonsense argued about by bores and loons, and truth be told the rest of us don't give a fudge so long as it's a decent vehicle.

 

[Clive]

Car "manufacturers" make very little if any of their vehicles. They are a collection of components built by ZF, Bosch, Denso, Delphi, Gates etc and bolted together in a facility which may or may not be owned by the "manufacturer".

All this talk of it not being a Merc because it has a Nissan stamp on the air filter housing is the sort of nonsense argued about by bores and loons, and truth be told the rest of us don't give a fudge so long as it's a decent vehicle.

Sanity arrives on the thread at last !

 

[Cowabunga]

These aren't sold or serviced out of the the Mercedes car dealers - which I've actually only had good experiences from - they are sold out of their commercial dealers. Which I have zero experience of.

I asked if the gearbox was different, they said it was. I'm not in the habit of assuming people are lying to me and asking them to take one apart and show me the differences. There is the ASA who get to do that and fine them it they are lying. Given they are both 7 speed auto boxes, the differences aren't going to be massive so its not like it would effect me purchasing decision. Not like the new V6 boxes which will be a big step up.

If you read my post more carefully, I specifically said that they were sold by Mercedes truck dealers.
As for lying, they probably don't have a freaking clue about any difference but will say anything to differentiate their product from the Nissan. They know that this truck is the butt of ridicule worldwide for its cosmetic minor restyling of a Nissan truck while they struggle to justify the massive price difference.

You still haven't told us the discount on these trucks by the way. I haven't forgotten. You must have had a price by now?

I'm not in the habit of taking the word of a couple of internet heroes who are taking the word of a dealership salesman without a jot of evidence, and whose relationship with said dealership, for what sounds very much like an infommercial based review. I'm not saying it is, but it looks more and more like it.

 

[Clive]

If you read my post more carefully, I specifically said that they were sold by Mercedes truck dealers.
As for lying, they probably don't have a freaking clue about any difference but will say anything to differentiate their product from the Nissan. They know that this truck is the butt of ridicule worldwide for its cosmetic minor restyling of a Nissan truck while they struggle to justify the massive price difference.

You still haven't told us the discount on these trucks by the way. I haven't forgotten. You must have had a price by now?

I'm not in the habit of taking the word of a couple of internet heroes who are taking the word of a dealership salesman without a jot of evidence, and whose relationship with said dealership, for what sounds very much like an infommercial based review. I'm not saying it is, but it looks more and more like it.

No payment for review just to be clear

If there was I’m sure I might have said it was better than the VW !

 

[Chris F]

If you read my post more carefully, I specifically said that they were sold by Mercedes truck dealers.
As for lying, they probably don't have a freaking clue about any difference but will say anything to differentiate their product from the Nissan. They know that this truck is the butt of ridicule worldwide for its cosmetic minor restyling of a Nissan truck while they struggle to justify the massive price difference.

You still haven't told us the discount on these trucks by the way. I haven't forgotten. You must have had a price by now?

I'm not in the habit of taking the word of a couple of internet heroes who are taking the word of a dealership salesman without a jot of evidence, and whose relationship with said dealership, for what sounds very much like an infommercial based review. I'm not saying it is, but it looks more and more like it.

Rygor only have one person for making this thread this long and that's you ! Will be coming back with prices.

 

[Cowabunga]

Car "manufacturers" make very little if any of their vehicles. They are a collection of components built by ZF, Bosch, Denso, Delphi, Gates etc and bolted together in a facility which may or may not be owned by the "manufacturer".

All this talk of it not being a Merc because it has a Nissan stamp on the air filter housing is the sort of nonsense argued about by bores and loons, and truth be told the rest of us don't give a fudge so long as it's a decent vehicle.

You are quite wrong. Nissan take the alloy and cast it into heads and blocks and machine it and assemble it. The Transmissions on these are all made in-house, although bearings and ancillaries will be bought in of course. Most of the body panels will be stamped from a roll of sheet steel, at the Nissan factory. The exceptions are the plastics and the small stamped parts such as gussets that make up the body which are usually bought in from outside suppliers, presumably because they are fiddly and are not worth a big factory tooling up for.
More to the point, probably 90%+ of these trucks' content by value will be actually made/manufactured by Nissan and Nissan's usual suppliers. Approximately 0% will be made by Mercedes.
Whether the punter or you cares about that or not, it does not alter the facts. So better get them right.

Only on the six cylinder variant will there be a significant Mercedes content.

 

[Cowabunga]

Rygor only have one person for making this thread this long and that's you ! Will be coming back with prices.

It takes three to tango.

 

[Clive]

Ok so not wishing to take the manufactures word for it a bit of further web reaserch has found this that should put this “its the same” rubbish to bed hopefully !


https://i.stuff.co.nz/motoring/life...an-navara-is-there-in-the-mercedesbenz-xclass

An interesting article that I will quote a few realavant bits from if you can’t be bothered to read it all .......

Here's the thing: the X-class really is much more than just a Nissan. In fact, aside from the chassis, the X-class shares the Renault-derived 2.3-litre engine and manual and automatic transmissions with the Navara (albeit tweaked by Mercedes). And that's about it.

And ..........

The X-class's body is 70mm wider than the Navara (no, it hasn't been done by just flaring the wheel arches) and no external body panels are shared.

The track is also 70mm wider and Mercedes has extensively tuned the suspension, using different springs and dampers, for a more Mercedes-like ride and handling experience. Even that platform has been tinkered with, with Mercedes engineers adding extra reinforcement and an additional cross member.

 

[Beowulf]

You are quite wrong. Nissan take the alloy and cast it into heads and blocks and machine it and assemble it. The Transmissions on these are all made in-house, although bearings and ancillaries will be bought in of course. Most of the body panels will be stamped from a roll of sheet steel, at the Nissan factory.
More to the point, probably 90%+ of these trucks will be actually made/manufactured by Nissan and Nissan's usual suppliers. Approximately 0% will be made by Mercedes.
Whether the punter or you cares about that or not, it does not alter the facts. So better get them right.

Only on the six cylinder variant will there be a significant Mercedes content.

Nissan MAY cast the block and/or head, but I know for a FACT they don't cast the pistons or conrods, they don't manufacture the shell bearings or piston rings, they don't manufacture the turbo, the fuel pump or the injectors. They neither design nor manufacture any of the control units or the wiring looms. Need I go on?

You are practicing the art of distraction in an attempt to appear both knowledgeable and correct, but in reality you are only succeeding in making yourself look obsessive and compulsive.

 

[boyo]

Im not really interested in either to be honest but for gods sake man.....CALM down.....its a fecking truck.

We'll all being arguing next that blue new Hollands are worth more than red cases

 

[335d]

It would have been quite easy to end this thread by taking a few pictures of the chassis of the Merc to compare with a Navara.
From what I have gathered, Mercedes have made mods to the original Navara chassis, but it would appear these modifications have also been rolled out on new Navara’s.
It’s clear body panels and interior are different, and the tub may have different wheel arches to allow a pallet to fit. Wheel track has changed due to different offset on the alloys.
Certainly not enough to warrant any great price increase.
Is the Renault badged one out yet? Will it be cheaper?

 

[Cowabunga]

Ok so not wishing to take the manufactures word for it a bit of further web reaserch has found this that should put this “its the same” rubbish to bed hopefully !


https://i.stuff.co.nz/motoring/life...an-navara-is-there-in-the-mercedesbenz-xclass

An interesting article that I will quote a few realavant bits from if you can’t be bothered to read it all .......

Here's the thing: the X-class really is much more than just a Nissan. In fact, aside from the chassis, the X-class shares the Renault-derived 2.3-litre engine and manual and automatic transmissions with the Navara (albeit tweaked by Mercedes). And that's about it.

And ..........

The X-class's body is 70mm wider than the Navara (no, it hasn't been done by just flaring the wheel arches) and no external body panels are shared.

The track is also 70mm wider and Mercedes has extensively tuned the suspension, using different springs and dampers, for a more Mercedes-like ride and handling experience. Even that platform has been tinkered with, with Mercedes engineers adding extra reinforcement and an additional cross member.

The journalists took all that from the pre-release press pack that I previously mentioned. They have certainly not tweaked either engine or transmission. If they had they would detail it. I've previously mentioned the increased track, which is down to different wheel offset. The panels we've previously agree in some detail [on my part] are different. The spring ratings change now and again in service and have changed twice on the Nissan since launch and may now be the same as fitted to the Mercedes, or not. They just choose the compromise that works best for them and do actually update these things in service as they gain experience and get feedback from customers.
The 'platform' they talk about is the chassis. It's a pity that you couldn't have them side by side on a ramp, because I don't see any difference on current versions. The only caveat is that I have not had them side by side up in the air, only individually. My bet is that whatever extra crossmember they fitted to the Mercedes at launch was also added to the Navara. Mercedes could then claim at that time that theirs was different to existing Navaras out in the wild without actually lying. They were just being economical with the truth.

Sumo @SW1 had them side by side and they are very experiences with metalwork chassis type stuff and they don't mention any difference there in their post of a few hours ago.

 

[Cowabunga]

Nissan MAY cast the block and/or head, but I know for a FACT they don't cast the pistons or conrods, they don't manufacture the shell bearings or piston rings, they don't manufacture the turbo, the fuel pump or the injectors. They neither design nor manufacture any of the control units or the wiring looms. Need I go on?

You are practicing the art of distraction in an attempt to appear both knowledgeable and correct, but in reality you are only succeeding in making yourself look obsessive and compulsive.

Neither do Mercedes of course, although they do manufacture most of their engines and transmissions. The point being that there is near to absolute zero Mercedes in these and a whole lot of Nissan, including the chassis and bodywork and all the other things I listed. Need I go on?

 

[Beowulf]

Neither do Mercedes of course, although they do manufacture most of their engines and transmissions. The point being that there is near to absolute zero Mercedes in these and a whole lot of Nissan, including the chassis and bodywork and all the other things I listed. Need I go on?

More waffle and distraction. You really must get a hobby that doesn't involve cars, you seem to be suffering the automotive equivalent of sexual frustration.

 

[Clive]

The journalists took all that from the pre-release press pack that I previously mentioned. They have certainly not tweaked either engine or transmission. If they had they would detail it. I've previously mentioned the increased track, which is down to different wheel offset. The panels we've previously agree in some detail [on my part] are different. The spring ratings change now and again in service and have changed twice on the Nissan since launch and may now be the same as fitted to the Mercedes, or not. They just choose the compromise that works best for them and do actually update these things in service as they gain experience and get feedback from customers.
The 'platform' they talk about is the chassis. It's a pity that you couldn't have them side by side on a ramp, because I don't see any difference on current versions. The only caveat is that I have not had them side by side up in the air, only individually. My bet is that whatever extra crossmember they fitted to the Mercedes at launch was also added to the Navara. Mercedes could then claim at that time that theirs was different to existing Navaras out in the wild without actually lying. They were just being economical with the truth.

Sumo @SW1 had them side by side and they are very experiences with metalwork chassis type stuff and they don't mention any difference there in their post of a few hours ago.

So in summary the list of those that are wrong / lying is growing

 

[DHI77]

The Renault one is the pick of them, it's seems they're not coming to UK or Ireland. That might change, don't think they have them in RHD.

 

[Cowabunga]

It would have been quite easy to end this thread by taking a few pictures of the chassis of the Merc to compare with a Navara.
From what I have gathered, Mercedes have made mods to the original Navara chassis, but it would appear these modifications have also been rolled out on new Navara’s.
It’s clear body panels and interior are different, and the tub may have different wheel arches to allow a pallet to fit. Wheel track has changed due to different offset on the alloys.
Certainly not enough to warrant any great price increase.
Is the Renault badged one out yet? Will it be cheaper?

You are quite correct. But it is probable that Nissan were rolling out those mods across the range anyway, to coincide with the Mercedes launch. I doubt very much that any of it was inspired by Mercedes apart from the general look of the thing. They chose all the options out of the Nissan parts bin that they wanted and were more intimately involved with the styling and cab interior than anything mechanical. Even so, cost constraints meant keeping the Nissan key fob , albeit with Mercedes logo. You wouldn't think that they would be counting the pennies considering the likely net selling price difference, but there you go.

My guesstimate is that the styling changes add about £300 to the manufacturing cost. Unlikely to be much more, based on an educated guess here, no more than that. I wouldn't be overly surprised if it amounted to a bit more money than that.
You have to consider that a lot of stuff that Nissan fit as standard are extra on the Mercedes. The extra cost of production rather depends on the volume that Mercedes take from Nissan, because the stamping dyes for the body panels will not be cheap and need to be amortised over the units produced. Even so, no doubt Mercedes are contracted to take an initial volume at a set price and further units above that will depend on whether Mercedes actually sell above target.

I believe Renault models are out in certain countries but the UK launch was postponed, possibly permanently or at least for the foreseeable future. The market seems to be getting fairly saturated with pickup models and clones. Fiat are selling a Mitsubishi clone of course and they are more circumspect about making any superiority claims over the L200. I prefer the look of the Fiat personally.

 

[Cowabunga]

So in summary the list of those that are wrong / lying is growing

No, they are the same as I have illustrated all along. A lot of their claims are them exercising artistic license. The chassis, engine and transmission are the same if you don't count the engine covers, which are obviously different but which the marketing bullpooers could well claim to be re-engineered or tweaked parts of the engine. They are after all attached to the engine.

I have zero evidence that current chassis have any differences, only that the Mercedes was launched with differences to the launch models from Nissan some two years earlier.
I would actually be very interested in seeing the two current models up on a lift to see if I can find the claimed extra crossmember. There may well be one compared to early production, although I have not noticed one, but the question is, whether there is any difference between today's production. I have demonstrated with pictures that one claimed difference has been shared, or rather fitted to the Nissan for at least 12 months.

 

[Cowabunga]

The Renault one is the pick of them, it's seems they're not coming to UK or Ireland. That might change, don't think they have them in RHD.

It would be a trivial matter to make them RHD of course, because they are already building two variants of it in RHD.
I agree that it is a pity that they are not coming here, if only because my nearest Renault dealer is only 20 miles away whereas the Nissan truck dealer is more like 70.