Mycoplasma in bought in calves.

[HappyShep76]

i have dealt with mycoplasma bovis 3 years ago on my farm
never want to see it again
bought in 30 charolais weanlings 8 months old
2 days later they started getting sick
anitbiotics draxxin etc were used an only saved a few
best approach we had by the end was to feed antibiotic powder to the full herd in the meal for about a month
we tried to cut the powder after 10 days and temperatures started to rise so had to stick with it
lost 8 charolais bulls to it.
comrades that survived didn't thrive like the other batches before them either.
cost me about 11 thousand euro and that's not taking lost thrive into account.

That sound horrendous!

The antibiotics in the feed is a very interesting point. In one of the many discussions with the calf supplier it was mentioned that some of the calf batches we had were given a week on Tilmovet 250 in their milk prior to us receiving them as they “weren’t quite right”. I can only imagine that once it had left their systems, plus the stress of moving, we got the problems.

Did you get anything back from where your weanlings came from?

Were the 8 Charolais you lost adults?

 

[Andy54]

That sound horrendous!

The antibiotics in the feed is a very interesting point. In one of the many discussions with the calf supplier it was mentioned that some of the calf batches we had were given a week on Tilmovet 250 in their milk prior to us receiving them as they “weren’t quite right”. I can only imagine that once it had left their systems, plus the stress of moving, we got the problems.

Did you get anything back from where your weanlings came from?

Were the 8 Charolais you lost adults?

Somebody is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. They would have to have been advised by the vet to administer that in the milk. Not only that but if you had been told that you could have maintained that course until those calves were settled

 

[HappyShep76]

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post a reply. It’s good to know that other people have got through this eventually. It sounds like we have a long road ahead of us still.

No fresh cases today...... Two of the ones treated yesterday do not look good. Hardly improved and just want to lay about. They look so sorry for themselves. We’ll just have to see what they do over the next few days.

I’ll keep you all in the loop with what happens with the situation.

 

[Samcowman]

Can you get antibiotics to put in the milk. We have used it in the past and has cleared up problems that have been building. It made a difference really quickly.
Either that or just jab the lot.

 

[Chasingmytail]

where are you in the UK. Why not ask around for opinions on best vet in your area.

 

[NZDan]

Have been a bit wary of our governments aproach to M Bovis, now that Ive read this I'm glad they've taken the approach they have. We now have it 2 farms away and have nearly finished putting a 2nd fence around the boundary, my neighbours and I have decided on a shoot at first sight approach to any stray cattle so hopefully we can weather the storm. My thoughts are witn all of you that have been affected.

 

[HappyShep76]

where are you in the UK. Why not ask around for opinions on best vet in your area.

We’re in Suffolk.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Really sorry to hear of your problems, the more I hear about mycoplasma the more I know we don't want it! I hope you get on top of it and I agree with others your vet does not seem to be on top of the seriousness of this issue.

I know you said it has not been a problem in the past, but like @gone up the hill I'm rather horrified at the feeding regime for these calves if they are being bought pre-weaning. On some farms they may not have been introduced to much concentrate (even though they should have been) so faced with water and cake they will not eat much (the non-eaters being masked amongst the others).

Some of those calves may have been fed at 6 am before a long journey to market, sometimes being picked up by a lorry and mixed with calves from other farms even before they get there, then waiting around for a couple of hours in pens perhaps with other calves a lot bigger than them, shoved through a ring, mixed again, with no access to food or water other than shitty bedding straw if they are lucky. The market will be full of different viruses and bacteria and being hungry and stressed their immune systems are depressed. They are then mixed with yet more calves, man handled onto a lorry for another few hours before being offloaded and not fed until the next morning which may be over 24 hrs later. They're then mixed yet again when they are grouped at the recipient farm. My priority would be to offer those calves something warm and full of energy, either a good quality milk replacer or I know some rearers who give them a scour electrolyte as their first feed.

Farms selling calves with mycoplasma may already know they have a problem at their end, with mastitis and sick calves and they should not be selling animals not fit for sale - that is a Trading Standards issue.

 

[gone up the hill]

Really sorry to hear of your problems, the more I hear about mycoplasma the more I know we don't want it! I hope you get on top of it and I agree with others your vet does not seem to be on top of the seriousness of this issue.

I know you said it has not been a problem in the past, but like @gone up the hill I'm rather horrified at the feeding regime for these calves if they are being bought pre-weaning. On some farms they may not have been introduced to much concentrate (even though they should have been) so faced with water and cake they will not eat much (the non-eaters being masked amongst the others).

Some of those calves may have been fed at 6 am before a long journey to market, sometimes being picked up by a lorry and mixed with calves from other farms even before they get there, then waiting around for a couple of hours in pens perhaps with other calves a lot bigger than them, shoved through a ring, mixed again, with no access to food or water other than shitty bedding straw if they are lucky. The market will be full of different viruses and bacteria and being hungry and stressed their immune systems are depressed. They are then mixed with yet more calves, man handled onto a lorry for another few hours before being offloaded and not fed until the next morning which may be over 24 hrs later. My priority would be to offer those calves something warm and full of energy, either a goof quality milk replacer or I know some rearers who give them a scour electrolyte as their first feed. They're then mixed yet again when they are grouped at the recipient farm. Farms selling calves with mycoplasma may already know they have a problem at their end, with mastitis and sick calves and they should not be selling animals not fit for sale - that is a Trading Standards issue.

I would have those calves fed the same night they turn up even if means going out there at 11pm and doing it, some will be going 36+ hours without milk on the OPs system , from a welfare point of view that is unacceptable for such young calves and will be adding to the problem.

 

[Forever Fendt]

those calves could have done 300 miles and mixed with 100s of others and not feed for over 24hrs, I am surprised you have not had more trouble before, This is just the sort of thing the public pick up on and i would tend to agree

 

[HappyShep76]

those calves could have done 300 miles and mixed with 100s of others and not feed for over 24hrs, I am surprised you have not had more trouble before, This is just the sort of thing the public pick up on and i would tend to agree

The calves come from the dealers farm as they are collected by him over a 3 to 4 week period and delivered to us once he has a big enough number to deliver to us.

 

[Andy54]

The calves come from the dealers farm as they are collected by him over a 3 to 4 week period and delivered to us once he has a big enough number to deliver to us.

You say that you had the first batch at the end of May, did any of those calves come out of Market Drayton in that month? We had some from there that month and one or two of them have had the same/similar symptoms. If so and your supplier kept them for 3 or 4 weeks I really don't see how he can't have had any issues with them whilst they were in his possession.

 

[Princess Pooper]

The calves come from the dealers farm as they are collected by him over a 3 to 4 week period and delivered to us once he has a big enough number to deliver to us.

so why is he delivering them to you at such a late hour? If they are coming from his holding then surely he can get them to you earlier? It also suggests that he may be knowingly selling you sick calves if they have been on his place for a while. It is still ultra stressful for calves - been on three separate farms with different groupings, management etc within the space of a few weeks.

 

[jade35]

The antibiotics in the feed is a very interesting point. In one of the many discussions with the calf supplier it was mentioned that some of the calf batches we had were given a week on Tilmovet 250 in their milk prior to us receiving them as they “weren’t quite right”. I can only imagine that once it had left their systems, plus the stress of moving, we got the problems.

From the NOAH website http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-453148


'Indications for use

Calves: For the treatment and prevention of respiratory infections associated with Mannheimia haemolytica, P. multocida, Mycoplasma bovis and M. dispar when the disease has been diagnosed at the herd level.

Special precautions for use
Special precautions for use in animals
Animals with acute infections and severely reduced feed intake should be treated first with a suitable injectable product.
The medicated water should be prepared fresh every 24 hours.
The medicated milk replacer should be prepared fresh every 4 hours.
Inappropriate use of the product may increase the prevalence of bacteria resistant to tilmicosin and may decrease the effectiveness of treatment with tilmicosin related substances. It is sound clinical practice to base treatment on suseptibility testing.

Amounts to be administered and administration route
Calves:
12.5mg tilmicosin per kg body weight two times per day for 3-5days, i.e. 1ml of product for 20kg body weight two times per day for 3-5 days.

One 960ml bottle is sufficient to medicate drinking water or milk replacer for 48-80 calves (40kg b.w.)

Medicated milk replacer should be prepared fresh every 4 hours using only clean water.
If signs of disease do not significantly improve within 3-5 days, the diagnosis should be re-evaluated and treatment'



Tilmicosin is the active ingredient of Micotil as well so it looks like there was something pretty serious on the previous farm if they were using medicated milk powder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilmicosin

Are you a member of the NFU or similar and have you spoken to your insurance company? When you have time can you look at CTS and follow the online trail for those calves. It may give you some clues as to what has happened to them before they were delivered to you.

Good luck and I hope that things start to improve quite quickly because it is so dispiriting when you cannot sort out the problem as fast as you want to and the calves end up knackered or dying. Have been there once and that was enough.

 

[HappyShep76]

From the NOAH website http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-453148


'Indications for use

Calves: For the treatment and prevention of respiratory infections associated with Mannheimia haemolytica, P. multocida, Mycoplasma bovis and M. dispar when the disease has been diagnosed at the herd level.

Special precautions for use
Special precautions for use in animals
Animals with acute infections and severely reduced feed intake should be treated first with a suitable injectable product.
The medicated water should be prepared fresh every 24 hours.
The medicated milk replacer should be prepared fresh every 4 hours.
Inappropriate use of the product may increase the prevalence of bacteria resistant to tilmicosin and may decrease the effectiveness of treatment with tilmicosin related substances. It is sound clinical practice to base treatment on suseptibility testing.

Amounts to be administered and administration route
Calves:
12.5mg tilmicosin per kg body weight two times per day for 3-5days, i.e. 1ml of product for 20kg body weight two times per day for 3-5 days.

One 960ml bottle is sufficient to medicate drinking water or milk replacer for 48-80 calves (40kg b.w.)

Medicated milk replacer should be prepared fresh every 4 hours using only clean water.
If signs of disease do not significantly improve within 3-5 days, the diagnosis should be re-evaluated and treatment'



Tilmicosin is the active ingredient of Micotil as well so it looks like there was something pretty serious on the previous farm if they were using medicated milk powder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilmicosin

Are you a member of the NFU or similar and have you spoken to your insurance company? When you have time can you look at CTS and follow the online trail for those calves. It may give you some clues as to what has happened to them before they were delivered to you.

Good luck and I hope that things start to improve quite quickly because it is so dispiriting when you cannot sort out the problem as fast as you want to and the calves end up knackered or dying. Have been there once and that was enough.

Thank you for your reply. A very interesting insight indeed. It’s always worse when you put a lot of trust in someone being open and honest with you. I’m not saying anyone has lied to us but they haven’t been totally truthful either.

We are with the NFU. It will be interesting to see what they make of it.

We had to bring 4 calves back in from the meadow this morning as they were displaying typical symptoms. 3 of the 4 were herd mates. They were moved from the yard to a field about 3 miles away on Thursday afternoon. I drove as steady as always but obviously the stress/change was enough to kick things off with them. They were weaned 2 weeks ago and have been as bright as new buttons from day one.

So disheartening.

 

[jade35]

Thank you for your reply. A very interesting insight indeed. It’s always worse when you put a lot of trust in someone being open and honest with you. I’m not saying anyone has lied to us but they haven’t been totally truthful either.

We are with the NFU. It will be interesting to see what they make of it.

We had to bring 4 calves back in from the meadow this morning as they were displaying typical symptoms. 3 of the 4 were herd mates. They were moved from the yard to a field about 3 miles away on Thursday afternoon. I drove as steady as always but obviously the stress/change was enough to kick things off with them. They were weaned 2 weeks ago and have been as bright as new buttons from day one.

So disheartening.

Maybe no connection but wondered whether there might be a BVD problem with the calves as well as this would weaken the immune system.

Would be a question for your vet to answer.

 

[Weasel]

Think I’d be looking for a new supplier!

Why do folk bother buying disease ridden calf's in the first place??

 

[puppet]

If you buy calves from a dealer who gathers them up from multiple sources then delivers them at Friday midnight presumably to catch the last market of the week then you will have disease outbreaks. More worrying is calves being given antibiotics in food or water and the list of powerful antibiotics being listed. You should refuse any which have been treated. Why do you need all these calves rather than dealing directly with a few farmers who you know and can trust?

 

[HappyShep76]

If you buy calves from a dealer who gathers them up from multiple sources then delivers them at Friday midnight presumably to catch the last market of the week then you will have disease outbreaks. More worrying is calves being given antibiotics in food or water and the list of powerful antibiotics being listed. You should refuse any which have been treated. Why do you need all these calves rather than dealing directly with a few farmers who you know and can trust?

There are no local sources of Hereford X heifer calves near us. We run 1000+ suckler cows and we like to have a choice in which replacement calves go into our breeding programme or the fattening yard. Not all of them grow on to make the grade.

As I said in an earlier post, this is a dealer we have always used and not had any problems with previously. We were not made aware of these calves having had treatment until it was too late. Had we known, they would never have set foot anywhere near us. It’s a shame we weren’t given that choice.

 

[puppet]

I accept you were caught out but it was just a matter of time.
Surely with 1000 cows you would have a better idea of which of your own cattle would make good replacements. Growth rates, maternal weight, milk, etc.
And no disease bought in.