North Korea

[Henarar]

China will pick the US with certain conditions over NK,and ultimately the North Korean people will be better of for it.

those that have not had the sh!t bombed out of them may well feel the benefit

 

[Henarar]

Well Israel was armed and finianced by the USA. The Syrians and Egyptians were armed and supplied by the USSR.

well they wouldn't want to dirty their own land

 

[Clever Dic]

Well Israel was armed and finianced by the USA. The Syrians and Egyptians were armed and supplied by the USSR.

But it was fought by Isreal for the survival of the state .Not a proxy war.

 

[Clever Dic]

well they wouldn't want to dirty their own land

You had a better suggestion for Israel then to fight?
The Americans much as it must pain you did not start the war or fight it but did supply arms to the only country in the region that was and still is a democracy.
Don't let a hatred of Trump blind you to unpalatable facts.

 

[fudge]

Nasser was a western bogeyman built up by the soviets to challenge US and British influence in the region. In turn the west used Israel as a bulwark against soviet influence. Yom Kippur war won't have been possible without US approval.

 

[jendan]

I respect your opinion@willy but you know I m just gonna desagree or have a different view on everything you just stated above.
Only one thing actually no I would not blame everything on the USA, sometimes it s just left holding the baby.
In regards to NK its nuclear capability is overstated, and even if, I think Pakistan with its islamist terrorist connection poses more of a treath to me than NK. Have u ever heard of a terrorist attack from NK? me neither

But you have got to admit

I think we are now in the crucial hour of doing something if something is to be done. NK has not yet miniaturized warheads or perfected delivery systems.
China is the key but China does likewise not want a rogue state on its borders and desperately needs normalization in trade with the US so as to keep its growing aspirational but unrepresented public mass quiet.
If the US acts it will be with unspoken agreements with China 're trade and the probable de militarization of NK and maybe with the possibilities of a joint administration.
China will pick the US with certain conditions over NK,and ultimately the North Korean people will be better of for it.

If it were only that simple.

 

[dstudent]

Israel's pre-emptive strikes on Jordan, Egypt and Syria at the start of the 6 day war possibly saved the state and certainly saved many Israeli lives.

Mm pre-emptive strike or unjustified attack?
I have 2 words for you Lavon Affair

 

[Henarar]

You had a better suggestion for Israel then to fight?
The Americans much as it must pain you did not start the war or fight it but did supply arms to the only country in the region that was and still is a democracy.
Don't let a hatred of Trump blind you to unpalatable facts.

I don't hate him

 

[Clever Dic]

Mm pre-emptive strike or unjustified attack?
I have 2 words for you Lavon Affair

I find it really weird how some folk can only grasp at single vignette stories and therfore deduce this is the complete picture.
Do you think in the six day war Israel was to be attacked by Syria,Jordan and Egypt.?
Think facts.
Do you think the Yom Kippur war started by unilateral attacks premeditated by Syria and Egypt?. Incidentally Jordan their supposed ally tried warning Israel as it felt this was a mistake.This is the same Syria that uses chemical weapons against its own people .

 

[dstudent]

I don't honestly think you can compare the regime that is N Korea to the U.S.
Try and find a live dissident in N Korea.

I m not comparing them however the USA hardly holds the moral high ground here.
Nk does not hold the monopoly on mistreating it s own people.
The USA has more people in prison than any other country in the world. It also has the death penalty. Over a million people have died and many more injured in Afghanistan and Iraq alone, wars initiated by the USA, the Iraq war is recognised as an illegal war by the UN.
The USA has pumped millions of dollars illegally supporting rebels in Syria causing the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians.
In the last 60 years the USA has overtly and/or covertly interfered in over 20 countries' affairs supporting dictators, resulting in wars and thousands of deaths and the sufferings of millions.
What happens to dissidents in Saudia Arabia? How are women threated in there and would you be able to freely practice any other religion there? We also know that it s the chief exporter of terrorism
How come we are not bombing them then?

 

[Henarar]

I m not comparing them however the USA hardly holds the moral high ground here.
Nk does not hold the monopoly on mistreating it s own people.
The USA has more people in prison than any other country in the world. It also has the death penalty. Over a million people have died and many more injured in Afghanistan and Iraq alone, wars initiated by the USA, the Iraq war is recognised as an illegal war by the UN.
The USA has pumped millions of dollars illegally supporting rebels in Syria causing the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians.
In the last 60 years the USA has overtly and/or covertly interfered in over 20 countries' affairs supporting dictators, resulting in wars and thousands of deaths and the sufferings of millions.
What happens to dissidents in Saudia Arabia? How are women threated in there and would you be able to freely practice any other religion there? We also know that it s the chief exporter of terrorism
How come we are not bombing them then?

you make it sound like the USA should be bombing the USA

 

[Henarar]

Is the solution to f**ked it up more of the same ?

 

[Clever Dic]

I m not comparing them however the USA hardly holds the moral high ground here.
Nk does not hold the monopoly on mistreating it s own people.
The USA has more people in prison than any other country in the world. It also has the death penalty. Over a million people have died and many more injured in Afghanistan and Iraq alone, wars initiated by the USA, the Iraq war is recognised as an illegal war by the UN.
The USA has pumped millions of dollars illegally supporting rebels in Syria causing the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians.
In the last 60 years the USA has overtly and/or covertly interfered in over 20 countries' affairs supporting dictators, resulting in wars and thousands of deaths and the sufferings of millions.
What happens to dissidents in Saudia Arabia? How are women threated in there and would you be able to freely practice any other religion there? We also know that it s the chief exporter of terrorism
How come we are not bombing them then?

If we have to have a superpower I would much sooner have them and the Pax America then any of the other candidates.
Maybe you would have China or Russia ?
Perhaps you have a penchant for one party totalitarianism.

 

[dstudent]

I find it really weird how some folk can only grasp at single vignette stories and therfore deduce this is the complete picture.
Do you think in the six day war Israel was to be attacked by Syria,Jordan and Egypt.?
Think facts.
Do you think the Yom Kippur war started by unilateral attacks premeditated by Syria and Egypt?. Incidentally Jordan their supposed ally tried warning Israel as it felt this was a mistake.This is the same Syria that uses chemical weapons against its own people .

You seem to be very sure about your 'facts', I respect that however to me and history has shown that events are not always as clear cut, black and white as they appear as the Lavon affair and the Liberty ship sinking demonstrate.
I m not siding with anyone here, but let s look at the results. Is Israel safer now? Is the region stable?
What about the palestinians caught in the middle of all this? And the refugees? And the israelies living under rockets?
Did the means justified the end? I don t think so

 

[Clever Dic]

You seem to be very sure about your 'facts', I respect that however to me and history has shown that events are not always as clear cut, black and white as they appear. I m not siding with anyone here, but let s look at the results. Is Israel safer now? Is the region stable?
What about the palestinians caught in the middle of all this? And the refugees? And the israelies living under rockets?
Did the means justified the end? I don t think so

No the situation is not perfect. But what could Israel have done diffrently when being attacked with combined armies who had as a stated aim the destruction of their country.
As an aside I feel very sorry for the Palestinian refugees but pose the question what are the fellow surrounding Muslim countries doing for the displaced except arming and radicalizing them.Maybe actually investing in them and building infrastructure would do more good but that does not suit their wider political agenda.

 

[dstudent]

No the situation is not perfect. But what could Israel have done diffrently when being attacked with combined armies who had as a stated aim the destruction of their country.
As an aside I feel very sorry for the Palestinian refugees but pose the question what are the fellow surrounding Muslim countries doing for the displaced except arming and radicalizing them.Maybe actually investing in them and building infrastructure would do more good but that does not suit their wider political agenda.

Have you ever heard of Miko Peled? He wrote a very good book titled the general' son, it s a very good book, you can also see him on youtube and tells his story and exctract from the book. If you ve not heard of him before please do check him out
Ps I hope the above didn t come off as patronising that wasn t my intention Miko Peled to me gives a different and interesting prespective which very much informed my understanding of the all conflict that s all

 

[arbel]

I think we are now in the crucial hour of doing something if something is to be done. NK has not yet miniaturized warheads or perfected delivery systems.
China is the key but China does likewise not want a rogue state on its borders and desperately needs normalization in trade with the US so as to keep its growing aspirational but unrepresented public mass quiet.
If the US acts it will be with unspoken agreements with China 're trade and the probable de militarization of NK and maybe with the possibilities of a joint administration.
China will pick the US with certain conditions over NK,and ultimately the North Korean people will be better of for it.

I couldn't agree more! Let's hope that Trump and Xi Jinping can work something out - and soon. It's only a matter of time otherwise, before NK does manage a successful ballistic missile launch and the USA would have no other choice than to make a military response. What does give these powerful families, like the Assad's and the Kim's, the right to brutalise, enslave and brainwash their people? We have seen it so many times before, in recent history - Hitler, Mao Zedong, Mugabe, Gaddafi and so on.

 

[czechmate]

I think we are now in the crucial hour of doing something if something is to be done. NK has not yet miniaturized warheads or perfected delivery systems.
China is the key but China does likewise not want a rogue state on its borders and desperately needs normalization in trade with the US so as to keep its growing aspirational but unrepresented public mass quiet.
If the US acts it will be with unspoken agreements with China 're trade and the probable de militarization of NK and maybe with the possibilities of a joint administration.
China will pick the US with certain conditions over NK,and ultimately the North Korean people will be better of for it.

Not the dead ones

 

[Clever Dic]

Not the dead ones

No but maybe the ones in the forced Labour camps and prisons or the family's of those punished in such institutions for the beliefs of other family members or merely the 100s of thousands that won't starve to death like earlier members of this sad country as it prefers to spend its money on nuclear and chemical weapons.
These will be better of.

 

[arbel]

The reality is of course that this is essentially a stand-off between the USA and China. North Korea is just the catalyst. The USA has basically backed China into a tight corner. If China does not effectively crush the aspirations of NK to have nuclear weapons and the means of delivering them, Trump will turn the screws on Chinese trade and will almost certainly take military action in that area. Even against China.