Our N addiction
- Thread starter Farmer Roy
- Start date
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
Only if I want to grow the most grass on least acreage. Been using between 220 and 300 units per acre for the last forty years. Grass is the cheapest food for my cows and growing my own is preferable and more 'sustainable' than buying even more feed in or keeping less cows.
'Sustainable' is one of those cliches I hate. It's a word that is always churned out to make an impression on the gullible and easily manipulated. It's a rubbish of a word that everyone churns out and few know what it actually means. What does it mean in this context? I wonder, for instance, whether today's world population is 'sustainable' if agriculture reverted to the universal near organic growing practices of the 19th Century?
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
I really doubt todays world population is "sustainable" under any practices . . .
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
It seems to carry on. Food security is, along with border, water and shelter, THE primary responsibility of any and all country's Government and management. Play silly-buggers with it to pander for some well fed middle class hippy with fashionable key words like 'sustainable', at your peril. See how sustainable empty bellies are! See what food poverty does for stability, law and order. See what wars are made of. Then ask what is 'sustainable'.
Back in the 80s when I was "the boy" my grandfather would only order 3 cwt/ac of Nitram for the wheat. It always looked thin and hungry by today's standards. There was an enormous row and inquest, and threats of dissolving the partnership one year, when at the instruction of the then Dalgety agronomist, I went off the rails and ordered for the first ever time, a couple of cans of Tilt Turbo to apply to a crop of wheat that had already lost it's lower canopy to disease.
That crop of Norman went on to yield 3.2 tons/acre of nice bright grain.
Sadly, I am finding that even with 190kg/N, 3 spray fungicide program and 30 yrs of variety development, 3.2 tons/acre remains very do-able today on some of the land we have.
Progress?
That crop of Norman went on to yield 3.2 tons/acre of nice bright grain.
Sadly, I am finding that even with 190kg/N, 3 spray fungicide program and 30 yrs of variety development, 3.2 tons/acre remains very do-able today on some of the land we have.
Progress?
I have no sons or daughters for that matter which are arguably the biggest problem when it comes to problems and sustainability on that front my conscience is clear, how about you ?
banjo
Member
- Location
- Back of beyond
It's quite comical how sustainable agriculture seems to efect farmers profits more than anything else.
I've been so skint that I couldn't aford fert for some years a while back and the farm was worse for it. The ground gets tired and needs a boost and that's a fact, fert works, but it is expensive in my opinion.
I cannot see a problem with using it if you want to and are increasing your production and profit, if your not, it's not worth it.
There are a load of well educated idiots advising the government and other organisations at the moment and have been for twenty years, most couldn't even grow an allotment, never mind run a farm!
Here's a bit of advice my father told me while I was scrimping on fert for quite a while
" feed the ground and the farm will feed you " it's the best piece of advice I've had !
I've been so skint that I couldn't aford fert for some years a while back and the farm was worse for it. The ground gets tired and needs a boost and that's a fact, fert works, but it is expensive in my opinion.
I cannot see a problem with using it if you want to and are increasing your production and profit, if your not, it's not worth it.
There are a load of well educated idiots advising the government and other organisations at the moment and have been for twenty years, most couldn't even grow an allotment, never mind run a farm!
Here's a bit of advice my father told me while I was scrimping on fert for quite a while
" feed the ground and the farm will feed you " it's the best piece of advice I've had !
- Location
- Ceredigion
I dont think any of you have read the article .it dont sound like it .its a problem with soil organic matter . Not a problem on grassland but an arable farm in continues cereals who dare i say it .bales his straw
you think it will be less by tomorrow ?
KMA
Member
- Location
- Dumfriesshire
Sustainable is a very useful word in it's proper context/use, I agree with Roy though that I don't think the current population trend is sustainable (in its proper use) in any way shape or form but who is going to address the issue and how do we ethically do it.
If we don't then the planet and human nature will do it for us and it won't be pretty.
But then we're getting away from the original point that there is evidence that chucking bags of N everywhere may be having an even more harmful effect than we thought.
If we don't then the planet and human nature will do it for us and it won't be pretty.
But then we're getting away from the original point that there is evidence that chucking bags of N everywhere may be having an even more harmful effect than we thought.
KMA
Member
- Location
- Dumfriesshire
Ah well, not going to be my problem 
jpd
Member
- Location
- rep of irl
farm like you are going to live forever----
tell that to some of the "farmers" that have ragwort filled grass fields beside me
tell that to some of the "farmers" that have ragwort filled grass fields beside me
awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
I have said it a number of times but remove nitrogen from farming and we will all be better of. just imagine getting double the price for our products and a que waiting for what we produce. it would restore the respect lost for our business
quite right
f**k all good if the bloke down the road can use it though
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Can we grow enough sugar?
Strange, how many farmers hate to see their good wholesome produce going so cheap, and the consumer's eating junkfood laden with salt, fat, and sugar.. because it's not healthy,,,,and just not right...
But- have no problem feeding the soil junk food and harming the health of it, because it drives profit. Supermarkets- scum of the earth though.
At least people can replace themselves with a new generation, how exactly is the topsoil going to do that?
Carbon, Nitrogen, floating in the air, free to a good home - yet there's debate about whether it's a good idea to grab it, or better to buy some?
- Location
- Ceredigion
awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
fair point but u have to agree that no government or multi national are going to do anything to help change or regulate it. it's not in the interest of a cheep food policy or a benefit to consumerism and disposable income
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Surely you're not suggesting actually making proper money out of the 'feed the world' model?
Lock your doors, and turn off your modem!
Danllan
Member
- Location
- Sir Gar / Carms
@Cowabunga has written that it is better, environmentally, for him to use N and feed more cows than to keep less... I know what he means but I think he meant to write about keeping less and buying in feed - correct me if I'm wrong.
First I'll admit I've never been in dairy and have only seen it on the farms of family and friends - no ag' college education - but... there seems to be a definite reliance upon N for an overall marginal gain. By that I mean that once the cost of the N itself, plus diesel, plus vehicle maintenance and man-hours is taken into consideration, and the time and costs necessary for the extra cattle 'allowed' by the N, the net benefits really are not so great as they might at first seem per head of cattle.
Much more important than that, for the dairy boys anyway, is the fact that in a few years there just won't be any net benefit at all once subsidy is rearranged. I've had nothing at all to do with arable in this country for thirty years, so can't comment from personal experience on how it will hit that side of farming; but, from the posts above, it looks fairly bleak unless some lateral thinking takes place on-farm and in Government.
I have no ethical / moral concerns against use of N per se, but I do think that a lot of people are soon going to realise that other, non industrial, sources are of real value. We might even see people asking nicely to have shedding sheep on their place, good news for some.
If anyone has some spare cash / seed money floating around, I do know of some ongoing research into a cheap, sustainable N source....
First I'll admit I've never been in dairy and have only seen it on the farms of family and friends - no ag' college education - but... there seems to be a definite reliance upon N for an overall marginal gain. By that I mean that once the cost of the N itself, plus diesel, plus vehicle maintenance and man-hours is taken into consideration, and the time and costs necessary for the extra cattle 'allowed' by the N, the net benefits really are not so great as they might at first seem per head of cattle.
Much more important than that, for the dairy boys anyway, is the fact that in a few years there just won't be any net benefit at all once subsidy is rearranged. I've had nothing at all to do with arable in this country for thirty years, so can't comment from personal experience on how it will hit that side of farming; but, from the posts above, it looks fairly bleak unless some lateral thinking takes place on-farm and in Government.
I have no ethical / moral concerns against use of N per se, but I do think that a lot of people are soon going to realise that other, non industrial, sources are of real value. We might even see people asking nicely to have shedding sheep on their place, good news for some.
If anyone has some spare cash / seed money floating around, I do know of some ongoing research into a cheap, sustainable N source...
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